BusTalk

[Mr. Linsky]

Pictured below is fleet number 1908 - a 1969 GM Model T6H-4521A and one of two (the other being number 1909) delivered to the Phoenix Transportation Corporation (Phoenix Transit System) of Phoenix Arizona in September of that year.

These handsomely proportioned 35 foot long and 96 inch wide 45 passenger 'New Looks' boasted both factory air conditioners and 6-71 Detroit Diesel power plants making them compact and powerful enough to negotiate the hilly torrain surrounding the city.

The 45's were a popular model among medium sized operators and over 800 were sold between 1968 and 1971.

Phoenix was a pioneer in transit air conditioning and installed aftermarket units on many of its GM old looks as can be seen on the far left side of the photo.

A brief history of surface transportation in the Phoenix area;

Phoenix had an electric streetcar system as far back as 1893 which was finally decommissioned in 1948. The motto of the transport system was "Ride a mile and smile a while".

The original owner and founder of the Phoenix Street Railway System, General Moses Hazeltine Sherman, had suffered too many losses, first a fire in the car barn in 1910 then an employee strike in 1913 started the deterioration of the rail system.

Ridership declined and in 1925 he sold the company to the City of Phoenix for $20,000. After a great deal of debate, the City of Phoenix became the operator of the system and in 1927 the citizens voted for a $750,000 bond to fix and repair it.

The Great Depression caused the system to have a drastically reduced rider base and forced the city to cut service and increase fares, which only accelerated its decline.

In 1933, the City Commission tried to revive the system by implementing a return to maximum service and a fares priced at a nickel. For the next 7 years a battle ensues over the electric car system and a new private bus operation called the Menderson Bus Line.

In the late 1930's citizens start to complain and initiate the removal of the streetcars because of the noise they make. In 1940 a decision was made to replace all the streetcars with busses, however they were saved a few more years due to wartime transportation needs. There was fierce competition between the Menderson Line and the Phoenix Operated electric and bus lines, however an agreement had to be made to not engage in "wasteful competition" due to shortages of materials and fuel during the war.

By 1946, Menderson sold his Bus Company to a group of 5 lawyers and it was renamed the Metropolitan Lines. The electric streetcars were warn out and the city purchased 12 Ford 27 passenger busses because that was all that could be delivered at the time. In 1947 another fire destroys the car barn, consuming all but 6 of the electric street cars, leaving a total of 7 operational on the system. The city at the time had to make a choice between rebuilding the track and facility or just switching to the more modern busses.

Phoenix Transit System eventually became Valley Metro Regional Public Transportation Authority - better known as Valley Metro.

Credits contained within photo.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

[Cyberider]

You sure caught my eye with this one, Mr. Linsky! I have a book entitled "Ride a mile and smile a while" that gives the entire history of the Phoenix streetcar system and is great reading. As for the Phoenix New Looks, they disappeared shortly after the Old Looks did in the early to mid-80's. Phoenix got New Looks fairly early on and I don't remember the newer ones as shown in the photo. Too bad we can't get a look at that row of Old Looks in back!

Dave

[Mr. Linsky]

Dave,

The very earliest Phoenix New Look that I can come up with (pictured below) is fleet number 314 - a 1960 GM Model TDH 5302 and one of thirteen (304 to 316) delivered to Valley Transit Lines in April of that year.

Number 314 has factory equipped air conditioning which was rare in the very early New Looks.

Also of note are the Art Deco roof markers which were replaced on later versions with the cheaper bullet shaped fixtures, and the fact that the roof supports had yet to be reinforced

I do love the logo with the red face, sombrero and oversized sunglasses!

Unfortunately, none of the background old looks in this picture are air conditioned.

Credits contained within image.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

[Cyberider]

Those are the New Looks I remembered, Mr. Linsky. However, I don't remember them being in that paint scheme in 1974. I thought that came about five years later. I have photos of them in a similar scheme as the Old Looks in the background. Are there any more Phoenix photos where you found these?

BTW, I wasn't happy when these buses showed up in 1960, displacing the Old Looks on the route that ran near where we lived!

Dave

[Mr. Linsky]

Dave,

While I'm looking around for more Phoenix Old Look photos, enjoy the two Valley Metro attachments courtesy of Northern California Bus Fans Gallery.

The first is a NABI 60 BRT for which I have no other information at this time, and the second is what seems to be a very updated version of GM's original RTS II.

I'm wondering if it might be one of the few operating 'Millenium' jobs from New Mexico?

Notice the very different passenger door arrangement and the more squared front with decked headlights.

Enjoy.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

[Cyberider]

Thanks, Mr. Linsky. I've seen the RTS's headed down the 202 to their runs. I think they're used on some express routes. They haven't received the standard VM livery and think they may be leased from somewhere. They've been around several years already, though.

None of the current buses are interesting enough that I want to go out and ride them. There were some more regular looking RTS's but haven't seen them on the east side of town in quite awhile and don't know if they are still around.

Between the New Looks and the above buses, we had New Look Flxibles, AMC "junk wagons," MAN articulateds, and Grummans. Surprisingly, the AMC's outlasted the Flxible New Looks though they weren't nearly as nice to ride. The Flxible era was very short in Phoenix.

I don't even bother to keep track of all the LF buses since. They don't have any appeal to me, looks or mechanically.

Will look forward to anymore vintage Phoenix photos you find.

Dave

[EE Broadway Local]

Nice pics of Phoenix fishbowls.

[HwyHaulier]

Mr. 'L' -

Great to see your account! You had noted, "...the city purchased 12 Ford 27 passenger busses because that was all that could be delivered at the time..."

That gave me a chuckle. Baltimore Transit had a like experience, though bought a more ambitious one hundred lot. The FORDS! Sigh! A buyer got
what they paid for! In a number of applications, though, it was classic, "...sending a boy to do man's work..." as the carriers soon discovered...

Baltimore Transit also did a postwar, soon learned misguided, buy on a large number of gas engine ACF-BRILL C-44 types. That's another story...

...............Vern.............

[Bill D]

Nice find, Mr. Linsky! The sunlight enhances the pictures quite well. I can almost feel the warmth of the Arizona sun coming off the buses. It makes me wish that I was there instead of the northeast right now. Thank you for sharing these pictures with us.

Bill

[Rt4957]

The TMC RTS I think is an RTS 08,,"Bulldog" as they are nicknamed in various cities.
Long Beach Transit had some in the 9200,and 9300 series,a couple were painted in the "Land Shark" scheme which had Teeth across the bumper in a smile.

The front was re-designed this way to accomadate a front door Wheelchair lift,,as the Rear Door arrangement on the 04s and 06s were a P in the A to spot correctly in a zone if you had a wheelchair to pick up,,if you were off by an inch (Trash can,pole or other unmovble obstruction),you had to re-spot the bus,,TIME CONSUMING!

Rt4957

[ctrabs74]