BusTalk

Mr. Linsky · Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:51 am Post subject: 'THE 4507's OF HONOLULU'

Pictured below are a handful of 1947 GM Model TDH 4507's (either just off-loaded in Hawaii, or waiting for the ocean crossing on the west coast) and part of a fifty bus order that would eventually carry fleet numbers 300 to 349 for the Honolulu Rapid Transit Company Ltd.

Notice that aside from protecting the headlights, windshield and front destination sign glass, all body openings including the roof ventilators were sealed probably to prevent rodent intrusion during shipment.

Apparently, HRT preferred to apply their own livery and ordered their equipment 'PCO' (prime coat only).

The one characteristic that defined the 4507 model was the introduction of the Thermo-Matic heating and ventilation system which was easily spotted by an intake vent over the destination sign and a roof clean of the ventilation caps that appeared on previous models.

However, many warm climate operators such as Honolulu opted for just the old roof air circulators.

Photo from the Jim Husing Collection.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

Cyberider · Joined: 27 Apr 2007 Posts: 501 Location: Tempe, AZ

Interesting photo, Mr. Linsky. Hadn't seen that one before.

Mr. Linsky · Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:51 pm Post subject:

Dave,

Thanks,

I think it's one of the most interesting photos I've seen so far!

In what was almost a 6,000 mile sojourn they traveled by rail car from Pontiac Michigan to Long Beach or San Francisco and then by ocean going freighter to Honolulu.

Amazing!

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

timecruncher · Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:54 pm Post subject:

GM's old look transit bus was a durable critter, to be sure. Here in the Ohio Valley, we get some serious Winter from time to time (Summer is a bit more serious, really), so Louisville Railway Company ordered their buses with Themo-Matic heaters. Noisy things, as far as I know, they never really worked the way they were supposed to.

Here, at least, the heat was more than adequate after you drove a couple of miles on a cold morning -- just don't expect any heat in the defroster...

Well into the new look era, 25 of these TDH4507 units soldiered on until the miserable AM-Generals showed up in late Summer 1975. They weren't terribly beat up, but all of them needed paint!

Here was a dash where if you looked around enough, you could find a toggle switch for every last light bulb in the bus!

No power steering, no air ride, no wheelchair lift, no *&@#!! bike rack -- not even any turn signals (well, except for two buses that somehow got 'em added in the early seventies)!

The new look era didn't begin until December 1961 in Louisville with the delivery of 26 TDH5303s, and no new buses were purchased from 1951 (25 TDH5103s) until then except for 20 little TGH3103s (I think). 5 were for Capitol Transit in Frankfort and the rest for Louisville feeder bus operations. Here is 413, freshly painted -- it was a former 'Downtowner' unit, running the Massie - Brownsboro Road Feeder bus with one of those 1961 new looks on the Market Street route behind it out at the Chenoweth Lane turnaround in 1968 or so...

Louisville Transit Company was owned by a syndicate of investors that also owned Indianapolis Transit System and The Milwaukee Transport Company, so new look buses arrived in the common orange/cream colors of those fleets. Strangely, old-look coaches, when one got a rare repaint, were painted green and yellow like 413 here.

timecruncher
Remember, schedulers give you the runs!

Note that the 798 has both a homemade rear door and front door. The front doors rusted prematurely, and the rear doors had been powered, but LTC drivers kept closing 'em up on people and the risk management people recommended that they be retrofitted with push doors.

Additional trivia: A loaded-to-the-doors 4507 was just as fast (or not) as when it was empty, whereas that fancy 5303 bogged down something awful when fully loaded! Progress? Bah!

Mr. Linsky · Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:58 pm Post subject:

Timecruncher,

Really nice and interesting photos from Louisville - thanks for sharing them with us.

The Thermo-Matic heating and ventilation system worked fairly well with heavy city passenger loads where the passengers themselves generated the heat that the TM system lacked.

However, country transit operation was a whole different story;

Green Line (NY) some how or another got hold of twenty five of a one hundred bus order that was originally destined for Surface Transportation System (NY) (see # 942 below).

These buses came equipped with Thermo-Matic heating with the only outlets being along duct work over the standee or transom glasses, and was completely inaffective.

Green Line learned a good lesson because the ten 1949 4507's they ordered not only had Thermo-Matic but also auxiliary underseat and dashboard heaters.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc. Jamaica, NY

timecruncher · Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:59 am Post subject:

Linsky --

Are you sure that's not a 4506 in that pic? I'm looking at the headlights and wondering where on earth they came from!

Louisville's units originally had those silly little turn signals on them as well, but most had been cosmetically removed by the time I was old enough to have my own Brownie camera.

Louisville had a garage full of Yellow 4006s, GM 4007s, 4507s and 5103s, along with C41GT Macks that had been converted to Detroit Diesel in the early 'fifties. There were also a brace of monster gasoline Whites from 1946 that I never got photos of, but were on the property until the first new looks showed up in late 1961.

timecruncher

roymanning2000 · Age: 75 Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 198

Timecruncher,

Seeing those Louisville colors brought back memories of a trip I took back in 1961. My mother, brother and I were returning from our summer bus trip to see relatives in the Hazard, KY area. Down and back on the bus.

The last leg was from Dayton to Fairborn, OH where we lived. St. John Transportation operated that route at the time and the bus assigned to our trip was an ex-Louisville old-look.

It was possibly a 4007, since it did not have the Thermo-matic vent. It still wore the Louisville paint with St. John's name painted above the windows. There were stickers inside on the window posts, bearing the Louisville Transit Co. name, asking passengers to not stick their arms out of the windows.

It was nice to remember a great trip that can't be taken today. Thanks for posting those photos.

Roy

P. S. For some reason, your photos are the only ones I'm getting on this board.

Mr. Linsky · Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:31 pm Post subject:

Mr. Linsky · Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:53 pm Post subject:

Here's a closeup shot of Honolulu Rapid Transit's 1947 TDH 4507 fleet number 344 delivered to the company as part of a fifty bus order (300 to 349) in February of that year.

Notice the rather austere livery and the fact that the usual 'watch your step' warning found under the top riser has been replaced with 'please deposit your fare'.

Because these buses had no Thermo-Matic heating and ventilation systems which were commonplace on 4507's, they were basically identical to the previous TD 4506 models except for the wings and logo under the windshields and solid engine hatches.

More about this particular overseas shipment can be found at the top of this page.

Photo from the Jim Husing Collection.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY