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"Mystery" Fishbowl in NJ: a of a kind experiment?
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:16 am    Post subject: "Mystery" Fishbowl in NJ: a of a kind experiment? Reply with quote

Here's another little "mystery" that has been puzzling me for quite some time, one that I hope our resident expert, Mr. "L", can shed some light upon!

Back in the early and mid-90's, I remember riding several times a most unusual GMC Fishbowl transit, operating on what once was the NHBL #1 local between Journal Square and Nungessers, via Kennedy Bouevard.

This unusual bus had large square windows, much like those on an AM GENERAL or a NEW FLYER. This, in itself, made for QUITE an eye-catching vehicle!

And, to add to the fun, the bus was equipped with an ancient glass-topped Johnson fare box, obviously inherited from some long-since scrapped Boulevard bus......STILL worked, too!

Though I rode this bus several times, I have totally forgotten what number it was.

Something is telling me that this rebuild was something of an "in house" project.

I cannot picture GM doing this, but, here again, I am only guessing.

I have not seen this bus in at least 14 years.

Any ideas on this one?

Appreciate any info......thanks in advance.......

John


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

.......an mow wondering if other companies (regardless of location) also "experimented" with Fishbowls in a like manner??

I truly regret now that I never at least tried to get a pic or two of this most unusual bus.......

John
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just recalled this picture I came across awhile ago, showing DOMENICO's #513.

Note that it is equipped with a sedan-type door instead of the usual transit-style folding doors.

Previously, the only other Fishbowl I'd seen so equipped was an early 1960's battery operated tin litho toy bus that I've had in my collection for many years!

Was this a "one of a kind" coach for DOMENICO?

An "in house" retrofit, perhaps, or was this possibly done by GM at the customer's request?

Highly unusual, any way you slice it!

*Note, too, if you look through the windshield, there is no "crowd gate" to be seen; I know that this unique piece of transit hardware was required on NJ coaches back in my day, and it wasn't until the 80's, when the remaining Fishbowls were in thier twilight years, that I saw these gates disappear frtom the scene.

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2292
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Hart Bus



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only "Square Window" Fishbowl picture I have seen was that of either Steinway Transit/Queens Transit or Queens Surface #324.

This was a fishbowl fitted with Classic Windows, definitely not AMG or any other brand.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hart Bus wrote:
The only "Square Window" Fishbowl picture I have seen was that of either Steinway Transit/Queens Transit or Queens Surface #324.

This was a fishbowl fitted with Classic Windows, definitely not AMG or any other brand.


Thank you......appreciate the info!

The square windows on this coach reminded me of pics of AM Generals and New Flyers; that was why I made that observation earlier.

As I said earlier, I now truly regret not at least trying to grab a pic or two......

John
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RailBus63
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was a thread on this board a while back about the rebuilt GM New Looks with new square windows that Midwest Bus Rebuilders did back in the late 1980's, but I can't find any photos. I believe they called it the 'Phoenix' and were hoping transit agencies would be interested in the updated look, but most operators opted instead to rebuild their buses 'as is'.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Appreciate this additional info; given this infomation, it would seem that the coach I've been referring to might have been a "PHOENIX".

I rode it several times years ago, but, it was more luck than anything else that I was able to, as I had no idea just when that bus would appear on its assigned run.

Sure wish I had at least one or two pics.......

John
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not entirely sure that I know what anyone is talking about here so I'll take a stab at it with the following photo of a GMDD 'New Look' with a GM 'Classic' rear clip.

It was done by a coach re-builder and is probably the nicest alteration I've seen.

Regards,

Credit within frame.

Mr. 'L'

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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. "L"

NEVER saw anything like this, before! Shocked

Thanks for posting here! Very Happy

The bus that is the subject of my thread had square SIDE windows; the forward-slanting GM windows had been replaced with large square ones. making for a most unusual coach!

From the front, this bus appeared to be your "average" Fishbowl.....NOT so from the sides!! Shocked

John
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HwyHaulier




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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NYO - All -

NJ "Crowd Gate" appliance? The actual NJ Code would help. A suspicion it mandated for equipment
in "City" and "School" services. Compare, long haul interstate operators did not have the feature.
IIRC, there was a "NJ Placard" in the vehicles that one was not to occupy "shotgun seats" (applied
to ACF-Brills, obviously), nor to cross a "Yellow Line", on the floor, just behind the entrance...

So? Hit the old NJ Code books?

.........................Vern.......................
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vern.........

Back in my day. "crowd gates" were simply an accepted part of everyday living in The Garden State.......all transits and suburbans were equipped with these unique devices.

In fact, until only a few years ago, I had thought that these were used across the country, and not being unique only to NJ!

These pieces of hardware certainly helped to keep rush-hour crowds from spilling over into the driver's area, and, on one ocassion (back around 1983), I saw a fellow passenger's life saved, thanks to one of these gates!

Lanky fellow who also worked in the city, boarded (as usual) a Hoboken-bound #21 (later, the #181). He had just paid his fare and the gate had barely had time to close when a car pulled out suddenly from a side street, right in front of our bus (Z300-series Fishbowl).

Passenger, who had just started going up the aisle, was flung backwards, and literally did a jacknife, with the gate saving him from being thrown through the windshield, when our driver jammed on his brakes to avoid a collision.

Fellow did have some injuries, but, they were relatively minor, and he did not require a hospital stay. Was a harrowing experience for all aboard. Good thing our driver was an old PS vet, and had quick reflexes!

Anyway, as I stated, the crowd gate was yet another "quirky" item that made NJ bus operations of long ago so doggone fascinating......

"NYO"
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 'shotgun' seat forward of the front door (or only door) on an ACF was never meant for passenger use but was intended for either a tour guide or a passenger attendant on the fancy long haul runs.

While New York's transit buses generally did not use crowd gates, the use of 'turnstiles' before the war could be found on the coaches of both the Brooklyn Bus Corporation and the East Side and Comprehensive Omnibus Corporations.

The turnstiles, which could only be used on buses with two doors, forced passenger to exit by the rear door thus speeding up service especially during rush hours.

BTW; to some degree, the turnstiles acted as crowd gates as well.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. "L":

As usual, some quite interesting info and trivia!

The BRILLS I was most familiar with growing up were the C-44's, which operated on some of the runs on "DE CAMP's" long-gone #22, between JSQ and Caldwell.......classic old suburbans!

"INTER-CITY" also operated the type when I was a kid.

The "suicide seat" you refer to I know were on the IC-41's (Vern told me of this unique seat quite awhile ago).......sure must have made for an interesting trip for whomever sat there!

John
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roymanning2000



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Domenico fishbowl with a sedan door was acquired from a Canadian operator. I used to know who the original owner but it's skipped my mind .

The door was a factory option on suburbans built at GM's factory in London, ON. The standard two-piece door didn't keep the Canadian winters out. A number of Canadian operators specified this feature.

GM did not offer this option on New-Look suburbans built at Pontiac. For those operators who used their suburbans mainly in charter service, it might have been an attractive alternative. The door was operated by the same type of mechanism used on the PD4106.

Roy
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ripta42
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beuragard 921 is a Palling Alouette, as indicated in the photo caption.

The Midwest Bus Phoenix 1000 was indeed a Fishbowl with Classic windows, an RTS-like rear end, and single rectangular headlights. There's more discussion and photos of both the Phoenix and Alouette in this thread - The Extremest of Extreme Makeovers.

The Phoenix customer could pick and choose which elements to "modernize"(e.g., only the windows or only the rear end), and it's my guess that Queens Transit 324 was a partial Phoenix.
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