BusTalk Forum Index BusTalk
A Community Discussing Buses and Bus Operations Worldwide!
 
 BusTalk MainBusTalk Main FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups BusTalk GalleriesBusTalk Galleries   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Capitol Trailways Bought by Carl R. Bieber Tourways

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BusTalk Forum Index -> Over The Road Carriers
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dieseljim
Deceased



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 548
Location: Perry, NY

PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:20 am    Post subject: Capitol Trailways Bought by Carl R. Bieber Tourways Reply with quote

From what I picked up on another forum, Carl R. Bieber Tourways bought Capitol Trailways out of bankruptcy in December. Evidently, Bieber plans to operate Capitol as a seperate operation while maintaining their own regular route service. Examining timetables of each company, I find that the route structure of either company does not overlap the other, with the possible exception of Reading to New York. Both use MCI coaches. Capitol also operates several Prevosts as well in its 43 coach fleet. Bieber has MCIs of several models, plus International minicoaches as well. Capitol was established in 1936 and Bieber in 1967. Does anyone know if Carl R. Bieber, himself is still alive or is he deceased?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
ripta42
Site Admin


Age: 38
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 1024
Location: Pawtucket, RI / Woburn, MA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Founder Carl R. Bieber, Sr. died in 1991. His son, Carl Jr., took over as owner; he retired in 2001 and passed away in 2005.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Dieseljim
Deceased



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 548
Location: Perry, NY

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:34 am    Post subject: Photo of Bus in Capitol Bieber Colors Reply with quote

I ran across and dowloaded a photo of an MCI 102 series coach with Capitol on the front and Bieber colors on the rest of the bus. Evidently the two companies are going to be merged together if they have not done so already. If that is the case, that would make Capitol Trailways a fallen Flag in the Trailways family of companies. Martz Trailways is the only founding member of the Trailways Bus System still in business. With the charter only companies starting to dominate the Trailways Transportation System, it seems to me that those companies without any line run service are making a mockery of the Trailways name. I believe that had something to do with Concord Coach Lines, C&J, and Peter Pan dropping out of the Trailways Transportation System. The charters are turning the name into a sick joke.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:06 am    Post subject: Re: Photo of Bus in Capitol Bieber Colors Reply with quote

Dieseljim wrote:
...With the charter only companies starting to dominate the Trailways Transportation System, it seems to me that those companies without any line run service are making a mockery of the Trailways name...

Jim -

Ah, I'm not so quick to judge. Maybe it is just a sign of getting older...

Seems to me the "markets" left them, not the other way around. So much for predictable and faithful ridership, most all who needed a coach to run up
and down a stretch of road at the same daily times. Businesses, and others, seem to have forgotten the lines could help with the shipments from, say,
L. L. Bean or Sears Roebuck, too...

The trend a long time coming on. That is, the near universal abandonment of any kind of common carrier, regular route, scheduled services. Things
change. We never, ever seem to get to vote on whether we like it. Trailways just trying to play the hands they were dealt?...

................Vern...............
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dieseljim
Deceased



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 548
Location: Perry, NY

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:33 pm    Post subject: Deregulation the cause of it all Reply with quote

It seems to me that Deregulation caused a lot more problems than it has solved. Without common carrier passenger service to rural America, what's a person without a car to do, resort to carjacking to get where he or she is going? The types of people running a lot of these bus lines are doing little more than looting the companies for what they are worth and perpetuating a downhill spiral. Perhaps it is time to force some common carrier obligations onto carriers that have the equipment to handle them. Neither the transportation industry, nor the public utilities should ever have been deregulated. In fact there should be a common set of rules for all to play by as well as a set of rules tailored for each mode's needs and operating characteristics. The airline industry was virtually ruined by deregulation starting back in1978 and the gangsters like Carl Icahn, Frank Lorenzo and other Wall STreet cokeheads have all but finished the job.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim -

On another, widely appreciated, transport related Forum, a gentleman asked a question along philosophic lines, "What is the meaning of UPS?"
As so much of my response, in the continuing thread is on point with this entire "common carrier obligation" and market pressures, I'll post here, too:

"If you haven't figured by now, I'm an Alumni and one of the Green Men from the old C F W Y Orchestra!

"As U P S were also Pacific Northwest people, too, there was long, mutual interest. Here are some points on the timeline:
In 1964, I was stationed at Chicago (71 & Cicero) with C F W Y. It was a matter of much interest that UPS had active applications for Operating Authority
before the ICC, for road certificates on important, long haul, highway segments, into and including Chicago.
In 1971, IIRC, startup of FedEx, with the quite small, French jet aircraft. Its acquisition of Flying Tiger Lines was much, much later.
In 1974, in UPS fill out of minor highway segment authority, expanded to serve all points in State of Maryland. We may assume this was just a part of a
national campaign by it.

"Now, compare the early UPS date with the Travails Of REA. Here we go into chicken and egg. The declining condition of REA, therefore, made available
much traffic (as appropriate and authorized) to UPS. But because of new UPS presence, suddenly it could compete for the vital, under the floors work on
the Greyhound, Trailways, and other bus carriers schedules. One effect fed on another, and so on. Once much of the bus package work diverted, so many
of the scheduled service passenger routes simply collapsed, account suddenly much reduced revenues yet little reductions in costs."

And, there you have it! Clean out the underfloor "holds" on the coaches, and there goes the business! The real irony too it, is that so much is diversion
to FedEx. And, to think Fred Smith from a "bus people" family, and he did shop his service concept and plan to Greyhound!

Ah, history deals some nasty breaks!

..................Vern.............
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
timecruncher



Age: 66
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 456
Location: Louisville, Kentucky

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Intercity bus service and the package express it carried would have died anyway. Retaining regulation of all intercity transport, rail, air or bus, would have made it happen sooner.

Most intercity carriers saw the end in their accounting books long before deregulation hit. The ATU, in one of its biggest screwups of the century, walked right into an intentional strike situation when Greyhound demanded major concessions during contract talks before their first big strike. Greyhound was in the same situation the auto builders are in now -- with the exception that government (us taxpayers) wasn't the least bit interested in bailing them out. It was a lose-lose environment for both the carrier and the union, and what happened is what probably would have happened anyway. The union ultimately won the battle, but lost the war.

A thorough summary of the decline of Greyhound and the two big strikes in 1983 and 1990 is found at this internet site:

http://www.angelfire.com/al/silverball/strikes.html

Cheap cars, cheap fuel and [relatively] good highways on which to drive, plus the cost of risk management (insurance), wages, benefits and taxes make it almost impossible to cover operating costs for scheduled intercity bus service today. The handful of carriers left now are all struggling to break even, and only the heavily-patronized or state-subsidized routes remain.

The future of intercity bus transportation probably lies somewhere between the above-mentioned state-supported routes and the Megabus model, which has been relatively successful here in North America. The days of the local schedule calling at every other town between larger cities is pretty much over.

It is a damn shame, though. I remember Greyhound when it was still a real bus line.

I rode many locals here in Kentucky between 1968 and the late eighties, when service levels were still pretty decent, and there simply was no ridership along the non-interstate system between Cincinnati, Louisville and Nashville, even though this is still one of Greyhound's stronger north-south routes today. An express could run Louisville to Nashville in just over 3 hours, but the local needed a bit over 5 hours to do the same. The average passenger won't put up with that.

And while the bus nut in me loved riding a PD4106 or PD4107 'buffalo' (or the occasional PD4501 Scenicruiser) down US31W through Fort Knox, Radcliffe, Elizabethtown, Munfordville, the three cave cities to college in Bowling Green, we rarely picked up or dropped off anyone along the highway.

timecruncher
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

timecruncher -

Geez! You surely brought that one in right on scheduled time!

I'll guess we are agreed, given all the variables, the US has largely moved past all this. Regular route, common carrier, scheduled runs,
regardless whether rail, bus, or whatever have largely dropped off the radar of the potential riding public.

The packages in the holds helped for the longest time, But, just how much time to counter the door to door onslaughts of UPS and FedEx
package trucks? At least, the nice guy in the package truck comes right to one's door...

Oh, why don't we get a piece together for Reminisce magazine? Why, back then sonny, the Greyhound man was always there at 9:43 am,
every day at the news stand!

...................Vern................
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
timecruncher



Age: 66
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 456
Location: Louisville, Kentucky

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recall riding Greyhound from Louisville back to Bowling Green during finals at Western Kentucky University in 1968 or 69, it was a mid-morning local departure, with around 20 riders leaving here. I always liked to ride the US31W locals, and this one did it all: Valley Station, West Point, Fort Knox, Elizabethtown, Sonora X-Roads (just what it says), Munfordville, Park City, Cave City, Horse Cave, then I-65 for the hop to Bowling Green. We had a local rider here and there to E'town, then no passenger activity that I recall (it was a long time ago...late sixties). Most of the riders were headed to Bowling Green or Nashville, but the driver had auto body parts to drop at Park City and Cave City. I heard him mumble something about bringing an entire Chevy down from Louisville one part at a time! I recall him telling me that packages southbound were almost all auto and tractor parts, northbound almost all pharmeceuticals!

I have some black and white photos of that trip somewhere. I'll have to dig 'em up and fire up the scanner. Seems like I was riding a 'buffalo that day.

Yes, and the driver was cussin' the gears on it, like so many did. From my own experience, the 4104s, 4106s and early MCIs were so easy to shift, but some drivers just never did get the timing down on those PD4107's!

timecruncher
...polished off a few gears on my own over the years, too!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BusTalk Forum Index -> Over The Road Carriers All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group