BusTalk

[Q65A]

My wife & I just returned from a 12-day vacation to the UK and the Republic of Ireland. Our trip was excellent, as was the weather (the only time I saw rain during the entire journey was when I arrived back home at Newark Airport last Sunday afternoon). As a bus fan, I was fortunate to be able to spend some time riding transit buses in London for a few days, and to observe surface transit operations in York, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Belfast, Dublin, Waterford, and Cardiff. London transit operations are coordinated by an intermodal agency called TfL (Transport For London). The big city has a very large number of bus lines in operation. There appear to be 3 main types of transit buses in current service: double deckers (for which London is justly famous), single deckers, and articulated buses (Mercedes Benz Citaros, known as "bendy buses"; the term "artic" in the UK refers to a tractor trailer). London buses are red, usually with yellow markings. Several private operators provide service under contract to TfL (e.g. Transdev, First London, Go Bus, Metroline, et al.) Rollsigns are used on most buses, although some double deckers have digital side signs. All modern double deckers have front and rear doors; rear doors are driver-controlled. Passenger chimes use pole-mounted push-button type switches similar to those used on NYCT Oprion VII's. Transit bus crime may be a problem in the city, as bus operators sit inside fully enclosed compartments equipped with full plexiglas shields; multiple security cameras are installed on both lower and upper decks. Bus operators do not appear to be able to make change, and at many central London bus stops riders must purchase bus tickets at curbside vending machines. Buses use GPS operated automatic PA systems, and many bus stops have digital electronic signs informing intending passengers of the approximate ETA of their buses. European bus building practice is similar to North American school bus building protocol in that a given bus often has one brand of chassis and another brand of body.Volvo, Scania and MAN chassis are very common. Alexander Dennis, Wright, Plaxton, East Lancs, and other bodies are similarly common. OTR buses usually have only 2 axles; they usually have Volvo, Scania, MAN or Van Hool chassis and bodies built by Jonckheere, Irizar, Beulas, Plaxton, Neoplan et al. Setra OTR buses are offered with 2 or 3 axles. I was very lucky to have spent my entire tour aboard a 3-axle Setra S-416 GT HD owned by J.J. Kavanagh & Sons (Kilkenny, Rep. of Ireland). Powered by a 430 HP M-B diesel coupled to a 12-speed ZF Ecomat, the big Setra was very similar to the Setra S-417's we see in the U.S., and was extremely comfortable. European high-deck tour buses usually have "downstairs" restrooms and drivers's side emergency exit doors (that are power-operated by the B/O, and can be used as auxliliary entrance/exit doors). National Express is the main scheduled intercity bus line in the UK, not unlike Greyhound or Peter Pan in the U.S. The buses I had observed were quite colorful, clean, well maintained, and well patronized. In London, I rode the 9 (Aldwych-Hammersmith) . This route also uses historical Routemaster double deckers at certain times. These older rear-entry double deckers are very fondly regarded in the UK; even non bus fans seemed to be well aware of them (something you wouldn't see in the U.S.) I also visited the London Transport Museum in Covent Garden. It is an excellent, modern exhibit that traces the history of road and rail transit in the city; I even had the chance to sit in the driver's seat of a Wright-bodied Volvo B7TL double decker (which is not unlike the NYTM RTS and Fishbowl exhibits). Overall, I was most impressed with how much UK residents embrace bus transit, and I had a very good time. That said, I still was happy to arrive safely at Newark Airport, where I boarded a new PANYNJ Orion VII HEV (operated by Coach USA) for a trip to Parking Lot P6 and my own car.

[Mr. Linsky]

Bob,

Glad to see you back safe and sound and that you had a great time.

London is one of our favorite places abroad (because they speak English and make the greatest Yorkshire Puddings!).

We often go because my wife's cousins in Southend On Sea roll out the red carpet for us and start by having their chauffeured Jaguar pick us up at the airport.

They won't let us spend a dime while we're there! - you can't beat that!

Anyway, good to have you on the board again.

Mr. 'L'

[Q65A]

Thanks Mr. L!
One thing that became apparent to me is that the bus hobby in the UK is very much alive and well. Models, toys, books and photos of Routemasters are everywhere. It appears that the average London resident is very much aware of their beloved RM. In contrast, I doubt that the average New Yorker would think that the term "Fishbowl" means anything other than a place to "find Nemo."
The shop at the London Transport Museum has to be the most comprehensively-stocked transportation museum store I ever have seen. There was an incredible selection of model buses ranging from simple toys to very detailed Corgi diecasts. The book selection was equally amazing. There are several prominent British bus book publishers out there, including Ian Allan (www.ianallansuperstore.com) and British Bus Publishing (www.britishbuspublishing.co.uk). Many of these books are available at Amazon and Alibris.

[Mr. Linsky]

Bob,

That store that you mentioned must be Washie's hangout - I'm surprised that you didn't meet him there!

Just as the Empire State Building has been symbolic of New York City, so has the London double decker represented that town.

There seems to be much more of a love affair between the English and their public transportation system (I liked your 'Fishbowl' remark relating to what a bus means to New Yorker!).

When I was a kid (and I was a kid once!), my favorite 'Match Box' toys were Leyland buses, and now I'm sorry I ever gave them away.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

[buses-online]

Hi Everyone

In reverse to you chaps who have visited the UK from the USA, I was looking for a forum on New York public transport having made several trips there in recent years. If anyone has any questions or requests regarding bus or coach transportation in the UK, please let me know.

I run a large website, www.buses-online.co.uk, with 20,000+ images already there, and plenty more to come. This is a subscription site (£2.50/yr) primarily because it lives on commercial servers that cost me a fortune to run. The scary coincidence is that we also have a free UK forum on the subject - www.bus-talk.com - which seems very close to your own name, but is much smaller! I hope this doesn't cause any confusion - all our forum users are (as far as we know) from the UK!

Q65A - glad you managed to catch a Routemaster. There are a small batch used by Stagecoach East London and First Group on routes 9 and 15, which are mainly branded as tourist runnings. They still run on tourist services in other cities, and I expect you caught site of a Mac Tours liveried example in Edinburgh? There are a small number of long distance coach brands in the UK: National Express you mentioned (who operate a fleet of coaches themselves, but have a greater number of branded vehicles owned and operated by other fleets), Megabus (in blue, similar to examples in the USA) owned and operated by Stagecoach, and north of the border in Scotland Scottish Citylink (again a common brand operated by a number of different operators).

Bus blinds (or destination displays) vary from place to place. Until recentlty there was significantly greater use of LCD/dot/digital displays, but a TFL ruling requires conventional, high visibility yellow roller blinds as these are easier to see and read (a) in all weathers, and (b) for visually impaired persons. Many Central London bus routes do not take cash fares: most residents will have a pre-paid "Oyster" card which is pre-charged and deducts fares when presented at an on-board reader when boarding the bus. For those of us that live outside the capital, a commmon option is a Travelcard, which allows you return into London, and then unlimited bus/underground travel whilst you are there.

Any more questions for me - please ask away. I shall be sure to be asking some questions about your transit systems pretty soon!

Kind regards - John

[Mr. Linsky]

buses-online,

As the unofficial welcoming committee here at BusTalk.info, let me do just that for you and say that we look forward to your very professional input and especially in matters from across the pond!

I am a frequent visitor to the British Isles having cousins in Southend on Sea.

If you're looking for New York transit discussion, you've certainly come to the right place so peruse our forums to your hearts content and don't hesitate to call upon any of us for assistance at any time.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY U.S.A.

[buses-online]

Hi All

A few from London today - firstly one of the few remaining Routemasters - this one being unusual in carrying a historic livery in celebration of 75 years of Bow Garage:



A more conventional decker - a Dennis Trident with East Lancs bodywork operated by CT Plus:



Regards from London

John

http://www.buses-online.co.uk

[timecruncher]

About six years ago I spent a few days at a B&B in Wimbledon after spending a week with family in France. My intention was to ride the Eurostar, visit Clapham Junction, and ride the Croydon Light Rail line.

I managed to do all of that and more, finding Beckenham Junction a good place to see and photograph trains and browsing around Croydon downtown shops.

timecruncher

[buses-online]

Hi Timecruncher

Just to bring back a few memories....

Regards - John

http://www.buses-online.co.uk

[timecruncher]

I have a photo taken at almost the exact same location (narrow little street, that), while waiting for a car back to Wimbledon. I had just dined at the KFC just behind the train in your photo!

We Kentuckians have to check and make sure "chicken done right" is done right across the pond, you know...

...From sunny Louisville, in the state where KFC was perfected...

timecruncher

[timecruncher]

Ahh, here we go:



This was a Saturday afternoon and downtown Croydon was busy!



Sorry about the bad quality. I was using a point-and-shoot film camera hastily acquired because my SLR had died just before leaving on the trip. I am now digital, so if I ever get back, I'll have better images to enjoy...

timecruncher

[buses-online]

Small world, huh? Your shot was taken approx 100 yards away from mine, as the tram descends down Crown Hill and leaves the centre of Croydon. Another piece of trivia - I worked for two years in an office above the Tandy you see to the left!

Regards - John

http://www.buses-online.co.uk

PS - we love KFC too - it's one of the few decent "fast food" options we have left in this country!