BusTalk

[Dieseljim]

Does anyone have any information on Utility Lines, buses it operated and routes. I also need route information on Bee Line for my New York Bus Lines Volume 3. Thank you very much.

[Mr. Linsky]

Dieseljim,

Until the MSBA takeover in 1973, Utility Lines (a subsidiary of Bee Line) operated what is now the 'N19' route from Freeport to Babylon in Suffolk County via Merrick Road and Montauk Highway.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

[Mr. Linsky]

Dieseljim,

For the most up to date information on the former Bee Line (L.I.) routes, I suggest perusing the following URL;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bus_routes_in_Nassau_County,_New_York

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

[d.marra]

[N4 Jamaica]

Please allow a bit of memory to contribute, with chance of error. Living in northern Manhattan in July of 1960, I wanted to visit some friends in Oakdale despite a LIRR strike. I rode the Independent Subway to Hillside Avenue and somewhere caught a Merrick Blvd bus to Freeport. There I changed to Utility, which I recall having the ticket-printing cash register that many bus companies used. I think the fare from Freeport to Oakdale was 35 cents. I had bounced along the horrible pavement of Merrick Blvd, Queens. Utility Bus Lines on Merrick Road was fast enough, but there were slow and narrow sections at places, ten years before Nassau County widened and straightened Merrick Road in Bellmore and Seaford.
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I found that my friends were away at the beach that afternoon. No free lunch with them! I headed back for Freeport, Jamaica, and Manhattan, and repeated the jaunt the next day! Only young people choose that punishment. Maybe not paying higher LIRR fare was attractive.
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By 1973, I was occasionally riding Stage Coach between Hicksville and Wantagh. Again, a cash register was used for zoned fares.
We lived near a Jerusalem Avenue Bus route that came diagonally through Bellmore, Wantagh, and Seaford to Verity Plaza. When Sunrise Mall opened, the route was shifted to Washington Avenue, the N54.
Joe McMahon

[asdfasdf]

[Hart Bus]

To "MR. McMAHON!"

I believe the bus from Jamiaca to Freeport was run by Bee Lines. My mom and I would take it on Merrick Road, when returning to Queens from visiting relatives in Lynbrook.


To Bob K.

Since I don't get to the South Shore very much, I think the contractor for Suffolk County is or was Louis Fuocco (sp?) Bus Lines.

[asdfasdf]

[Mr. Linsky]

Here's a bit of 'Bee Line' nostalgia for you;

Pictured is a 1932 'ACF' model 901 operating as fleet # 184 for Bee Line, Inc (L.I.) and signed for Grant Park for the Jamaica - Hewlett run.

I believe the photo was taken at the old Jamaica terminal (pre New York Boulevard and 165th. Street sites) and you may notice a North Shore Bus Company ACF in the background.

Bee Line was the dominant operator in Jamaica for only a short time and lost its franchises to North Shore due to poor service and dilapidated equipment.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

[d.marra]

Bob K wrote: I think we have a problem. If I remember correctly, the N19 (Babylon-Patchogue) ran under MSBA from June 1973 until somewhere in 1975. Then in 1975 Nassau County started having problems giving subsidies to MSBA and MSBA began cutting routes/service. This is when the Bayville-Glen Cove route died. The eastern end of the N19 was also terminated at Babylon and someone (I don't remember who) operated a new 'S40' route from Babylon to Patchogue.

After a couple of years of POOR (or less) service, MSBA was brought back in as a "contractor".

I have the first MSBA timetable for the S40 dated March 2, 1977. In it , it announces:

Babylon-Patchogue Bus Service is Back!
To better serve the transportation needs of area residents,
the Metropolitan Suburban Bus Authority, in cooperation
with Suffolk County, has assumed responsibility for the
operation of the S40 route between Babylon and Patchogue.

MSBA then operated the S40 until early 1981. the last MSBA S40 timetable that I have is January 1981 and the first Suffolk County S40 timetable I have is July 1981.

That is correct Bob. I have not had a chance to add to what I wrote since my last post. Thanks for filling in the part I missed.
MSBA did run the S40 route 1973 until 1975. Nassau County was paying for the operation into Suffolk, and wanted to add more buses as the schedules were to tight. Suffolk did not want to reimburse Nassau, as the cost was too high and did not want to pay for more buses on the route.
In 1975, at the end of the two year contract, MSBA terminated service on the S-40 and Suffolf contracted with Educational Bus in Copaige to run the service.
Educationals cost was cheaper, and Suffolks S40 riders soon found out why. Educational was operating the route with hand me down well worn buses from Bee Line and anywhere else, and part time drivers. Pasengers complained as buses were not running due to breakdowns, or no drivers.
I know, as I lived in East Islip 1974 through 1977.
Suffolk contracted with MSBA in 77 until a more reliable operator could be found. You know the rest.
As for the Glen Cove Bayville route, that was originally owned/operated by Huntington Coach. One "School bus" a day from Glen Cove, and one afternoon return trip from Bayville to GC. When Mid-Island Transit purchased the Hempstead-Glen Cove route, they also took the Bayville connection, still with only one bus.
When Mid-Island went bankrupt, all their lines were abandoned. Schenck took over the Hempstead Glen Cove route, but the Bayville route remained abandoned. MSBA never operated GC-Bayville.
The Hempstead-Glen Cove route was a "Day in the country" and I jumped on that run soon as it was open.

Daniel Marra aka Mr. Schenck

[d.marra]

Mr Linsky wrote:

Bee Line was the dominant operator in Jamaica for only a short time and lost its franchises to North Shore due to poor service and dilapidated equipment.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY
_________________________________________________

Hi Mr Linsky;
You seem to have your statement reversed. North Shore was the former dominant operator in Jamaica, and lost it's franchises to Bee Line and Schenck Transportation. Schenck and Bee Line operated excellant service from Jamaica and Flushing until June 1973 when MSBA of Nassau County tookover the private bus operations.
In an earlier post, you mentioned that "Schenck was absorbed by Bee Line." I can assure you that Never Happened.

Daniel Marra, aka Mr. Schenck

[Mr. Linsky]

d,marra,

This is going to be a long one!

I would direct your attention to page 7 (entitled; 'Four Zone Plan') of the October-December 2000 issue of Motor Coach Age featuring 'New York City's Green Bus Lines' which deals with the matter of Bee Line (L.I.).

If, by chance, you don't happen to have the issue handy let me quote two paragraphs written by the late esteemed historian Alan Bromberger;

"A four-zone plan for Queens was proposed by Mayor LaGuardia in the spring of 1935, the notion being that the largest operator in each zone would buy out the smaller ones and then get a franchise. Considering how long it had taken to arrive at that plan, its execution went quickly with respect to three of the zones, for which 10-year franchises were awarded in the fall of 1936. The tax rate was 7 percent of gross receipts with no annual minimum payment.

Here's the part that you'll be interested in;

Triboro Coach Corp. was franchised in the Woodside zone after acquiring four smaller operators, and North Shore Bus Corp. in the Flushing zone. Bee Line was the largest and oldest operator in the Jamaica zone but had a history of labor problems and disputes with the city, so Bee Line was left out of the original long term awards."

That fourth zone (Jamaica) was given to North Shore Bus and was maintained by them until they sold out to the city in 1947.

Bee Line's above mentioned disputes with the city at that time were based upon complaints of poor service and outdated equipment!

Bee Line was granted franchises by the city to operate routes within the city from the Nassau County line to Jamaica and could not pick up passengers inbound within the city nor could they discharge passengers outbound within the city.

The tattered 'Bee Line' of 1934 cannot be compared with the well run operation that we were all familiar with post war.

BTW; Green Line was awarded the third zone which encompassed southern Queens.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

P.S.; congratulations on precipitating my 900th. post!

[asdfasdf]

[Mr. Linsky]

Mr. Schenck,

I apologize for being terse to you in my Bee Line explanation above and that fact I failed to welcome you to BusTalk.info - I very much look forward to your input especially in matters of Long Island.

And here's one of those matters;

I am confused. A couple by the name of Combs owned Long Beach Bus Company, Nassau Bus Lines, Branch Bus Line, and had some affiliation with Rockville Centre Bus Corporation and possibly Bee Line.

However, Wikipedia (which is notorious for erroneous information) states that Nassau Bus Lines became part of Schenck.

The photo below which is a 1938 Mack model 'CW' and is standing on Mott Avenue in Far Rockaway sometime in the forties is believed to be a piece of Bee Line equipment and history does note that Nassau Bus Lines often used buses from other divisions for their routes.

A strong magnification will discern the Bee Line (busy bee) logo under the windshield and on the side of the coach.

Any logical answers?

Of interest in the same photo and seen to the left side of the frame in a parking lot are a couple of 1933 Green Line Macks.

Mr.Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

[Mr. Linsky]

Mr. Schenck,

I apologize for being terse to you in my Bee Line explanation above and that fact I failed to welcome you to BusTalk.info - I very much look forward to your input especially in matters of Long Island.

And here's one of those matters;

I am confused. A couple by the name of Combs owned Long Beach Bus Company, Nassau Bus Lines, Branch Bus Line, and had some affiliation with Rockville Centre Bus Corporation and possibly Bee Line.

However, Wikipedia (which is notorious for erroneous information) states that Nassau Bus Lines became part of Schenck.

The photo below which is a 1938 Mack model 'CW' and is standing on Mott Avenue in Far Rockaway sometime in the forties is believed to be a piece of Bee Line equipment and history does note that Nassau Bus Lines often used buses from other divisions for their routes.

A strong magnification will discern the Bee Line (busy bee) logo under the windshield and on the side of the coach.

Any logical answers?

Of interest in the same photo and seen to the left side of the frame in a parking lot are a couple of 1933 Green Line Macks.

Mr.Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY