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Historical Buses of NYC: Flx New Looks (Part 3)

 
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Q65A



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Location: Central NJ

PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 2:44 pm    Post subject: Historical Buses of NYC: Flx New Looks (Part 3) Reply with quote

When Flxible introduced their Gen. 3 New Look transit line in 1973, the organization was deeply immersed in a period of transition under Rohr management. By 1974, plans were developed to relocate bus assembly operations from Loudonville, Ohio to a newly acquired plant at Delaware, Ohio, located approximately 60 miles away. The U.S. economy also was undergoing economic upheavals due to oil shortages and sharply increasing energy prices, factors which also would have a stimulating effect on mass transit systems nationwide. Additionally, Rohr was engaged actively in pursuit of the ill-fated Transbus project (which ultimately, if indirectly, paved the way for development of Advanced Design Buses). Against this tumultuous backdrop, the Gen. 3 Flx New Looks made their debut. In classic fashion, yet another model numbering scheme was devised to accompany the new transit buses. This nomenclature easily was the simplest, most logical and intuitive of the three numbering systems introduced since 1961, so much so that it carried over unchanged from the end of New Look production (10/21/7Cool right into the ADB era. The first two digits indicated nominal seating capacity: “45” indicated a 35-foot coach, while “53” denoted a 40-footer. The next 2 or 3 digits (“96” or “102”) logically indicated overall width, while the next single digit (“6” or “8”) described the number of engine cylinders. A final digit (“-1”) or lack thereof signified presence or absence of air-conditioning, respectively. Most engineering changes from Gen. 2 to Gen. 3 were evolutionary. The 285” wheelbase, in use on 40-footers since 1964, was retained. The time-honored 6V-71N Detroit Diesel engine was standard, with the 8V-71N Detroit available as an option. Earlier Gen. 3 Flx New Looks used either Allison VH or Super VH hydraulic transmissions, but the 3-speed Allison V-730 became available toward the end of the New Look production run. These later transmissions were equipped with an electronic shift control actuated by a 3-position toggle switch mounted on the front instrument panel; 3 adjacent telltale lamps indicated selection of forward, neutral or reverse gears. Button-actuated Bendix-Westinghouse Model DD3 parking brake valves became available around 1975. Kneeling front suspensions (using a combination of Delco and Bendix air controls) also became available around the same timeframe; this important passenger accessibility feature has since become very common equipment on most modern transit buses. Electrically driven, toggle switch controlled front destination signs became commonplace in lieu of manually actuated, crank driven destination signs; side signs typically still used the manual system. As with Gen. 2 Flx New Looks, a street-side vertical exhaust pipe was installed, but Gen. 3 units did not use the curb-side air intake stack that had been used on Gen. 2 New Looks. The rear window was changed to a top-hinged, push-out design that served as an additional emergency exit. The size of the rear window was reduced significantly, a handy spotting feature that can be used to distinguish Gen. 3 New Looks from their older sisters. The same 4 lamp tailgate arrangement was used both on Gen. 2 and Gen. 3 New Looks.
During the middle and late 1970’s, Flxible became the preferred bus supplier for both NYCT and MaBSTOA (who did not purchase a single new GM bus between 1973 and 1981). NYCT and MaBSTOA purchased a total of 973 Model 53102-1’s from 1973-1977. These buses were procured under 6 contracts: NYCT 7200-7204 (contract D-31124 in 1973-1974); MaBSTOA 7300-7361 (contract R-40624 in 1974); NYCT 7500-7659 (contract D-31125 in 1975); MaBSTOA 7700-7937 (contract R-40625 in 1975); NYCTA 9000-9159 (contract D-31126 in 1977); and MaBSTOA 9160-9307 (contract R-40626 in 1977). They were equipped with 6V-71N Detroit Diesel engines, Allison Model VH hydraulic transmissions (Allison V-730 on 9000-9309), air conditioning, kneeling front suspensions, electrically driven front destination signs (with manually driven, RH midship-mounted side destination signs) longitudinal blue plastic seats, “hoodlum lights”, front and rear run number boxes (the rear box was used as a rear route sign), 2-way radios, exact-fare fareboxes, mechanical parking brakes (Bendix-Westinghouse DD-3 parking brakes on 9000-9309), and Bendix AD-2 air dryers. They also were equipped with dual electric horns (“City/Country” horns, which were selected by a toggle switch mounted on the LH switch panel and actuated by a conventional button mounted on the steering wheel hub). Unlike some Flxibles bought by other carriers, NYCT/MaBSTOA Gen. 3 New Looks did not use rotary switches for ventilation controls (instead using individual toggle switches for this purpose). Unlike their older Gen. 1 and Gen. 2 sisters, these units were delivered in 2-tone MTA blue livery, switching later to the modern white and blue striped MTA color scheme. That the MTA was able to place such large bus orders during this era is most impressive considering that at the time NYC was in the throes of a severe fiscal crisis that began in 1975. These buses initially were assigned to depots in Queens and Manhattan as follows: Queens Village (7155-7174, 7605-7629), Flushing (7175-7204, 7590-7604, 9081-9090), 126th Street (7300-7361), Jamaica (7580-7589), and 100th Street/132nd Street/146th Street (7700-7939). MaBSTOA 7753 was delivered with Bus-O-Rama advertising signs, the only Flxible New Look so equipped in NYC. These buses survived until they were replaced by RTS’s in 1990. MaBSTOA 7340 (1973 Model 53102-1) is preserved in the DOB Vintage Bus Fleet, and is stored at Yukon Depot when not in use. In complete contrast to the MTA, during the same timeframe the PBL’s purchased no Gen 3. Flx New Looks; their next Flxible acquisitions would be Model 870’s.
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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob,

Another 'well done'!

Photo courtesy of BusTalk Gallery.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

Generation '3' NYC Flxible # 7340
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B53RICH




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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good report!
Again, just like to add a few:
Correcting typo NYCT 7200-7204 (contract D-31124 in 1973-1974) should be 7000-7204.
In the Brooklyn division, FP had 7135-7154, 7570-7579 and 9070-9079.
Fifth Ave.(JG) 7090-7134, 7545-7559, 9040-9054.
XT 7530-7544, 9030-9039.
ENY, FLA & UP not sure, someone else can fill in.
At 126 St. which is TA not OA, 7300-7361 were not originally assigned there, rather to one of the OA depots. Side note regarding 7340, this wound up at FP during the 80's. 126 St. had 7000-7020's or 30's. and 7645-7659.
Please feel free to correct me on my posting.
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Waynejay



Age: 58
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Bob,

Just a couple of corrections for me too. As B53RICH noted at OA's 7300-7361 couldn't have gone to 126th Street depot as that is a TA depot. 7300-7361 went to OA's Hudson (HUD) depot. Here's a pic from this site's photo galleries of the HUD 7300s in their early days.



Unfortunately, the '73 and '75 7000 series Flxibles were my least favorite new look buses. Whenever, I was out riding, I'd often pass them up in favor of something else. Now, the '77 Flxible 9000 series... I couldn't get enough of those buses.

In the Bronx, I remember that KB originally had 7833-7852 and 9285-9299. COL had 7853-7877 and 9160-9184. WF had 7878-7917 and 9185-9204. Some some odd reason 9155-9164 had 8V-71N engines in them and they were a blast to ride. AMS had 7918-7937 and 9300-9309.

I thought FLU's 9000 series were 9081-9089???
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Q65A



Age: 66
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
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Location: Central NJ

PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks very much for the updates and photos, guys!!!
I think you folks are a lot more accurate than some of the references I've been using for these articles.
Those photos really look terrific; I always thought that the MTA 2-tone blue livery was very classy.
It's still very hard for me to regard New Looks of any description as "historical buses" Shocked
Pretty soon we'll be calling RTS's as historical buses, too!
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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob,

How right you are about livery schemes and what they can do for a bus.

Just take a look at 7336 and 7337 above in their original 'stately' colors as compared to the 'generic' repaint of 7340 also above.

7340 has no character, no complexion, no nothing! - in fact, it looks like a toy!

One thing I will say though is that its fleet numbers are large and clear - something you don't see much of today.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY
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44toEmmons




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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:23 pm    Post subject: MTA Color Schemes Reply with quote

I agree with you guys, with the exception that the silver bus numbers were not easy to read. The more white they use on buses, the worse they look- especially with that dark purple-blue accent. Both GM & Flx looked good in two-tone blue. The paint scheme looked okay even as the buses aged. I've heard that the white helps visibility, but I've never had any difficulty seeing a 10 ton 40' bus regardless of its color scheme.
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B53RICH




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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at the photo of 7336 and to clear up any confusion, 7336 was signed as the M15 which is currently the M23. Back then there were more than one M15 route, the other was and still is the 1st & 2nd Ave. route based out of TA depot 126 St. By looking at 7336 now, one may think it was based out of 126 St. Also there was a third route 15, the current Q32.
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Waynejay



Age: 58
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

B53RICH wrote:
Looking at the photo of 7336 and to clear up any confusion, 7336 was signed as the M15 which is currently the M23. Back then there were more than one M15 route, the other was and still is the 1st & 2nd Ave. route based out of TA depot 126 St. By looking at 7336 now, one may think it was based out of 126 St. Also there was a third route 15, the current Q32.


Agreed - And to add a bit more... Today it's the M23 (23rd Street Crosstown). However, before the TA renumbered the crosstown routes to match the street of operation, this used to be the M26. If you look closely at the side sign on 7336 it's displaying "M26 23rd Street Xtown". I guess many of those buses didn't get update destinations immediatley after the route number change.
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

B53RICH wrote:
Looking at the photo of 7336 and to clear up any confusion, 7336 was signed as the M15 which is currently the M23. Back then there were more than one M15 route, the other was and still is the 1st & 2nd Ave. route based out of TA depot 126 St. By looking at 7336 now, one may think it was based out of 126 St. Also there was a third route 15, the current Q32.

And what is now the Q32, was known to some degree in the early '70's (pre-1974) as QM15, because of the other two M15's plus this third one traversing through Queens. (And on that pic of the 23rd Street bus marked "M15" on the front, the side clearly stated "M26.")

But I wasn't too keen on the '73-'77 Flxibles either; especially because of the small rear window compared to either the '64 or '69-'70 Flxibles (especially the ones where the rear window setup was 4 pieces). (Most had only one solitary piece; but I do remember seeing some pics where even there, some bus operators had two pieces in that small rear window section of the '73-'77 variant of the Flxibles.)

As the 126th Street depot ('OTS' as on fareboxes in the '70's and '80's) was mentioned, I have to ask: Did any of the 1964 Flxibles ever see any service at any time on any of the five Manhattan routes (1st / 2nd Avenue M15, Madison/Chambers M1 / M22, 50th Street crosstown M3 / M27 [now M50], 65th Street crosstown M7 / M29 [now M66], and/or York Avenue M11 / M31) that the TA operated? I know, besides their Brooklyn comfort zone, these buses ran on Queens and Staten Island lines . . . plus the '69-'70 Flxibles, by later in the '70's, running some Manhattan routes including M16 (now M34) . . .
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B53RICH




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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, my quote returns six years later!

To answer the question, "Did any of the 1964 Flxibles ever see any service at any time on any of the five Manhattan routes (1st / 2nd Avenue M15, Madison/Chambers M1 / M22, 50th Street crosstown M3 / M27 [now M50], 65th Street crosstown M7 / M29 [now M66], and/or York Avenue M11 / M31) that the TA operated?" I wasn't in Manhattan every day but I did see one once on the M15. Fresh Pond even had a handful of them around 1980.
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