BusTalk

[Mr. Linsky]

I had originally written this essay for BusTalk.net and would now like to reprise it for your enjoyment below;

MY FIRST LOOK AT A NEW LOOK

It had to be sometime in late 1959 when I had occasion to go into Brooklyn on personal business and spotted my first ‘new look’ dressed in dark green city colors and parked along Grand Army Plaza (probably on a layover). It had to have been among the first 5301’s delivered numbered 1 thru 190 that arrived toward the end of that year.

Of course, we had all heard about the ‘radical’ new buses from GM that were about to hit the streets but we had never seen any pictures and new almost nothing of the details.

At first glimpse I was flabbergasted and thought that it was the ugliest thing I had ever seen. There was no question that it was ‘light years’ away from anything we were used to.
I was particularly taken by the starkness of the rear roof line and what seemed to be a completely misplaced window line (that was greatly improved and made much more handsome with the addition of the A/C units which came later on).

There was one other point that struck me as beyond revolutionary and bordering on dangerous; I was concerned about the larger then life windshield and how little protection it would afford a driver (we were all used to the ‘old look’ design with a front end wrapped around us like a tank!). Unbelievably though, I don’t think many if any drivers through the years suffered any great injury because of the added exposure.

While I was still with Green Line in 1961 new looks proliferated the company but were only originally assigned to Q10 and Q60 (Mr. Cooper’s pet lines) and I never had the opportunity to drive one (they would never have wasted them on the summer shuttles to the Rockaways). However, I did have occasion to ride in a new look sometime in the seventies on 34th. Street in Manhattan, and was very impressed by the smooth ride, the modern interior and especially the tinted glass windows that made everything outside look so clean and fresh!

The drivers gave them excellent reviews and, as history will reflect, the '5300’s' turned out to be the backbones of virtually every major fleet in the country for nearly three decades!

Note; if anyone would like to add a representative image of a 5300 to enhance my article, please be my guest.

Mr. Linsky


"The Green Hornet" Green Bus Lines, Jamaica, New York (LA 7 2400)

[Cyberider]

Mr. Linsky, I saw my first New Look at about the same time as Phoenix got them early too. I was not happy! I loved the looks and sounds of the now "old look" buses and these new intruders were not welcome. To some extent, I still feel that way today, though I now see how the New Looks evolved from the previous models and were tremendously successful buses. I like the uncluttered look of the rear window of the early non-AC models. Of course, there weren't any of that model in Phoenix where AC had even been applied to most of the old looks. In any event, I am now a New Look fan too and they make all current buses look, sound, and ride like junk in comparison.

[Bill D]

I believe that the first New Look that I saw (and rode on) was in Boston, at the age of 5 or 6. My family made regular visits to relatives there, and while we usually rode the subway, on this one particular day we took the bus (I believe it was the #55 route) from Queensbury St., about a block from my uncle's residence. The bus, painted grey, was like nothing I had ever seen before. Of course, the large windows were what really stood out, but the inside seemed spacious compared to other buses, and I was fascinated by the shift lever mounted on the floor to the right of the operator's seat. The bus seemed to go faster than what I was used to riding on (which in the early 1960's were the "new" buses at my local bus line, second hand TD-3206 and TDH-3610 models). I thought that the New Look was wonderful.

A few years later they showed up in Waterbury, at the Connecticut Railway & Lighting Company (CR&L). Their first ones did not have air conditioning, but some later ones did. I used to imagine what it would be like to drive one. Little did I know at the time that one day I would get my chance to drive New Look buses, including the last two CR&L buses in operation.

It's hard to believe that these buses are mainly a memory now, it seemed like they were always there and always would be.

[Mr. Linsky]

[Bill D]

Mr. Linsky,

In Connecticut, CR&L was our "Green" bus line when I was growing up. I've only seen pictures of their Macks, but I remember that Connecticut Company had some Macks running on trippers in Hartford up until the early 1970's. I recall that they were very rugged looking vehicles.

[Mr. Linsky]

[Q65A]

I saw my first New Looks when I was in kindergarden at PS 200 in Queens. Queens Transit's Q65A circled the large block on which I lived. PS 200 had a playground located across the street from the Q65A stand at 164th St. & 71st Ave., so early on I had a daily "grandstand seat" for observing QTC's Old Looks (numbered in the 800 series). One day I spotted one of the Fishbowls, resplendent in bold orange and silver, with black lettering. I could not get over those slantline windows and all that glass (many years later, when I heard the nickname "Fishbowl", I understood very well why they were called that name). They not only looked different, they sounded different, too; the Old Looks had straight-6 Detroits that had a deeper sound, while the V-6 Detroits in the New Looks sounded higher in pitch. Ultimately, I became very familiar with QTC's GM's of all ages, and I rode them quite frequently. I still visit my old neighborhood from time to time, and even though I like Orion V CNG's, seeing blue & white paint on Jewel Avenue (Harry Van Arsdale Jr. Ave. today; I attended elementary school with his granddaughter) I still miss the "orange buses".

[Bill D]

[Free-transfer]

Mr. Linsky,

Looks like I made it here.
I found a few pictures in my computer from BusTalk.net
that may be of relevance. These are not my photos.

Hopefully, I can hotlink these from my MySpace account.
If anybody can or cannot see the 2 photos below, please
let me know, either way.

Best Regards,
Dennis V.

[Mr. Linsky]

Dennis,

Photos came through 'loud and clear' (at least for me)! 506 and 514 look pretty good (for their age!).

You are one more 'cog' in the wheel that will make us complete again!

So glad you're on board -welcome!

Mr. Linsky
"The Green Hornet'
Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[Free-transfer]

Here is another...

I must search this hard drive for pictures of the old 400's, as they were
truly the first fishbowls GBL purchased. I personally preferred the original paint scheme of the 400 and 500 series, before the red stripe was added.

This is another BusTalk photo, I believe posted by Joe Testagrosse.
GBL #525, I believe working on the Q35 in Flatbush.



Here is another...one of the last Canadian GMC Fishbowls ordered by GBL,
#360, working on the Q37 at Union Tpke in Kew Gardens.
I think this is one of the "sexiest" pictures around of a GBL bus.




I have many more...but none of these pictures are mine, so I'm hesitant
to post without giving proper credit to the true photographer.

Best Regards,
Dennis V.[/img]

[Mr. Linsky]

Dennis,

More great pictures! Thanks for sharing (that '360' was when Green Line was still Green Line!).

I also thought the Green Line 400's were the best paintwise and with the 'art deco' ICC markers. (I don't know why GM ever changed that touch of class!).

From a personal point of view, I found the rear window setups to be rather awkward, but the later models with A/C finished the rear ends very handsomely (this is a matter of taste - and all may not agree with me).

It was akin to the 4506 'old looks' without the 'Thermo-matic' intakes over the destination signs - and how much better the 4507's looked with them!

As far as crediting the photographers for particular pictures, I put 'unknown' where I don't know - I don't really think they mind as long as their photos are used for educational purposes (as ours are) and not for commercial profit!

Thanks again.

Mr. Linsky
"The Green Hornet"
Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[Free-transfer]

Mr.Linsky and friends,

Check out the "Hot Behind" on this one! Look directly behind the
drivers side of 806........you'll see the tail end of what I'm
reasonably sure is a low number 500 bus, like 501-510.
They had the same tail lights and interior as the soft-seat 400's.

That's what I call a sexy bus! Originally, they didn't have the red stripe,
just the Cream colored wheels and two-tone Green paint. The Company
Emblem and logo also featured an Old Look GMC bus to boot!




Anyway, since I never answered the original question.......
The first time that I noticed an Old Look was on 47th Street and Queens Boulevard, taking the bus to my grandmothers house with my brother in 1965. We boarded a low numbered New Look, I think 401 or something similar.

We transferred at Woodhaven Boulevard to the Q11 for the ride to Sutter Avenue in Ozone Park. I noticed the Q11 bus was different, but didn't realize "how" it was different. When the driver pulled into the stop, I ran right passed the rear exit door, expecting it to be in the middle. It was bus 327, a 35 foot Old Look.

From then on, I noticed things in the interior.......
Like blue highlights in the Formica for buses with a/c and brown highlights
for those without a/c. Florescent lights for New Looks, regular bulbs for Old Looks. I noticed different fareboxes, steering wheels, emergency doors vs
sliding window instead of emergency door and etc.

I was 5, almost 6 when I started to comprehend the differences between
Old Looks versus New Looks and then "it" happened. One day, on the Q11,
as we passed Jamaica Avenue...a Flxible and a Mack were going in opposite directions on Jamaica avenue. Talk about chaos to a 6 year old!

Best Regards,
Dennis

[Mr. Linsky]

Dennis,

The 'old look logos' were a sore spot that everyone laughed under their breath about.

Some idiot ordered them by the hundreds from 3M not realizing that they would be obsoleted almost immediately by the 'new looks'.

With a zest for wasting nothing, Messrs. Cooper, Weinstein and Levine ordered that they be used on 'everything'!

It wouldn't surprise me if there are still cases of them in the back of a stockroom at JFK!

Mr. Linsky
"The Green Hornet"
You know the drill!

180

[Mr RT]

Mr. Linsky, et., al.,
(Dennis V. your photos didn't come thru on my connection)

I would like to get a little smarter on Old Look-New Look-RTS hstory.
- Old Looks produced by GM thru '59 ? At Pontiac, MI ?

- New Looks (Fishbowl) production started '59 ?
- New Look T5301 = gas V6 ?
- New Look T5307 = diesel V8 w/ 71CI per Cyl ?
- New Look T5308 = same as abv., but no rear/ctr door ?
- New Look when A/C added, what model ?
- New Look GBL #360 arrived when ?
- New Look at MI until '79, then a Canada until '82

- MIC Classic in '82 replaced New Look at GMDD ?
- Flexble looked like New Looks but was just a clone from diff mfg ?

- RTS under development from '65, first production '77
- RTS 1st went to Long Beach Calif, as well as 10,000th ?
- RTS 10,001st went to Green ?
- RTS: from GM thru '86, then TMC thru '95, then Novabus
- RTS models -01 thru -06 ?
- RTS Express ver. what model ?

Thanking you in advance for you training of this railfan