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RailBus63 Moderator
Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 1063
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Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:03 am Post subject: |
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I believe the ‘congestion tax’ is the long-term answer to this issue, not only in New York but other large cities as well. Many people are clearly not discouraged from driving to the city by the lost time or the high cost of parking involved. Accordingly, local governments should increase fees associated with undesirable single-occupant travel until behavior finally begins to change for the better. The additional revenue raised can then be utilized to improve mass transportation alternatives.
A few other random thoughts on the subject:
- Public transit agencies should not necessarily be given a monopoly in serving the ‘new’ passengers who elect to park their cars. These are commuters who are used to having certain comforts and amenities in their private autos, so they are not likely to respond well to be asked to crowd into a city bus or train car (accordingly, they are also more likely to pay a premium fare for a premium level of service). Any congestion-pricing plan should have enough flexibility to allow both public and private operators to compete in offering new services without being tied up in bureaucratic red tape or being held hostage by fearful transit unions.
- The move towards multi-occupant taxi service needs to be encouraged – perhaps a ‘next generation’ taxi meter can be tied in to an EZPass system to show when multiple fares are being carried so that those vehicles can qualify for a lower toll charge.
- The freight industry gets a bad rap when it comes to urban congestion. People love to paint delivery trucks as the bad guys, not realizing that everyone pays the price when a city forces higher operating costs onto freight deliveries. I work in the freight logistics industry and I can assure you that those higher costs get passed straight through to the payer of the freight (and ultimately to the end consumer). Congestion-mitigation plans should not ignore this. |
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HwyHaulier
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 932 Location: Harford County, MD
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Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:19 am Post subject: |
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RailBus63 wrote: | ...The freight industry gets a bad rap when it comes to urban congestion. People love to paint delivery trucks as the bad guys, not realizing that everyone pays the price when a city forces higher operating costs onto freight deliveries. I work in the freight logistics industry and I can assure you that those higher costs get passed straight through to the payer of the freight (and ultimately to the end consumer). Congestion-mitigation plans should not ignore this... |
RailBus63 -
As A Freight Old Coot Emeritus: AMEN!
Much of the problem is completely ignorant and naive morons and "Peter Principle" types, amazingly holding advanced degrees from "...all the right schools...",
collectively unable to discern S... from Shinola. They advise, and urge bright ideas, such as deregulation of highly refined, regulated systems.
Otherwise. People's basic right to freedom of travel. Better not to tamper with it, by wild ideas of regimentation of folks into choices they don't want. AFAIK,
the Biblical accounts of the travels of the Jewish Peoples from Egypt is, also, a right to travel discussion and parable...
...............Vern.............. |
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shortlineMCI
Age: 54 Joined: 07 May 2007 Posts: 241
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Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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ripta42 wrote: | Parking is a terrible land use, and the industry wouldn't be nearly as lucrative without the present system of free (subsidized) roads. Considering nearly 70% of Manhattan households don't even own a car, it's shameful that they should be paying for people from Queens to take a shortcut through to Jersey, or to take up an extra 224 square feet of prime real estate while they're sitting in a cubicle all day. |
There's still thousands and thousands of cars that use these parking garages in NYC all generating taxes for NYC and these same lots are used heavily on the weekends.
But you still can't stop people from driving in to the city to go to work, or whatever they'd like to do. If you force change on people again, you'd be hurting this business and the taxes they collect.
Also, the facts and figures you provided about health contributes to the fact that the poplulation in NY has ballooned and the illegals have added to this number and that doesn't take into account the health problems they had when they arrived.
P.S. the Quote botton keeps taking me to another website. Hopefully it'll be back on line. |
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ripta42 Site Admin
Age: 45 Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 1035 Location: Pawtucket, RI / Woburn, MA
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Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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I'd argue that a few hundred people living or working on a given site would contribute more taxes and economic activity than a few hundred parked cars, but what do I know.
No, you can't stop people from driving in, and I don't think driving should be prohibited. I do think it should cover more of its cost.
I'm not sure what you mean by the City's population "ballooning." It's 6 percent higher than it was in 1950. Meanwhile, vehicle miles traveled increased 13 percent just between 1996 (earliest data readily available) and 2007! Immigration has nothing to do with it, as air quality and asthma rates are correlated all over, not just in New York.
Quote function seems to be back. |
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Mr. Linsky BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 5071 Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.
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Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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I'm getting a bit off topic here but I would like to make a comment on the following quote by Ken;
"Also, the facts and figures you provided about health contributes to the fact that the population in NY has ballooned and the illegals have added to this number and that doesn't take into account the health problems they had when they arrived".
It's the health problems that illegals bring with them when they arrive in the U.S. that worries me!
A very vocal part of the health care discussions now going on in Washington are the objections to any care for these people when they get sick here.
I say that they must have some kind of coverage not so much to protect them but more to protect us!
This becomes of the utmost importance when considering the we are now being confronted with flu viruses that we are completely unfamiliar with.
Mr. 'L' |
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HwyHaulier
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 932 Location: Harford County, MD
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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:44 am Post subject: |
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ripta42 wrote: | ...I don't think driving should be prohibited. I do think it should cover more of its cost... |
ripta42 -
The "Five Boros" issues are a separate and distinct case. The "cost burden" general proposition you noted above, however, has its own
problems, and is doubtful in national application...
Please see a little table in Trains (July 2009). It tracks the inflows and outflows of Highway Trust Fund amounts. The inflows are more
than enough for original intent uses; i.e., upkeep, repair and some as need new build to existing system. But, since the "original intent"
days, large flows diverted to other uses. The highway traffic is the "earner" in all of this...
......................Vern................... |
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shortlineMCI
Age: 54 Joined: 07 May 2007 Posts: 241
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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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Mr. Linsky wrote: |
It's the health problems that illegals bring with them when they arrive in the U.S. that worries me!
Mr. 'L' |
Well, the mexicans have succesfully reintroduced head lice in California as with polio. God knows what else. (according to Michael Savage)
Last edited by shortlineMCI on Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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shortlineMCI
Age: 54 Joined: 07 May 2007 Posts: 241
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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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ripta42 wrote: |
I'm not sure what you mean by the City's population "ballooning." It's 6 percent higher than it was in 1950. Meanwhile, vehicle miles traveled increased 13 percent just between 1996 (earliest data readily available) and 2007! Immigration has nothing to do with it, as air quality and asthma rates are correlated all over, not just in New York.
Quote function seems to be back. |
Let me give you an example. The enormous amounts of Chinese that are here illegally operate like this...In ChinaTown, NY there's as many as ten Illegal chinese living in one apartment, and they work in shifts..day and night..My sources are from a driver who before he drove for Shortline used to hire them for his restaurant business....if they find a better paying job after their lunch, they would not return for work. and not tell him..my other source is when I drove for for City Sights and operated a double decker tour bus, I had long talks with the tour guides on their breaks and he pretty much confirmed that very same thing. The mexicans.....they operate the same way..hundreds of them in one entire apartment building...tens and tens of illegals living on one floor...the 6 percent population growth you provided Mike, might not be accurate.
I thank you for checking the "quote" button..it works just fine now. |
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ripta42 Site Admin
Age: 45 Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 1035 Location: Pawtucket, RI / Woburn, MA
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Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:33 am Post subject: |
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There have always been large numbers of immigrants living under one roof in the City. Before Chinese and Mexicans, there were Puerto Ricans, Italians, Russians, Jews, Poles, you name 'em. Drop by the Tenement Museum on Orchard Street some time and see how many of them lived in a single apartment. If anything, the overall denisty has gone down with gentrification of historically immigrant areas (although a lot of it just shifted - before the Chinese and Koreans, Flushing was a much lower-density Jewish area.
The 6 percent growth also isn't steady growth; there was a large decline in population in the 1970s and '80s - yet an increase in traffic congestion. |
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