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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 23618
Location: NEW JOISEY
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 Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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Speaking again of Boston; like "Noo Yawk", quite a few of those tough, swaggering "Pattons" were still in service through the 1960's..........
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?152933
(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
["T"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 23618
Location: NEW JOISEY
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 2716
Location: New York, New York, USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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I'd been to Boston way back in '88, and there'd be a case for that - because what is now the "Red Line" there is the only one in that town to have BMT-type specs, down to the car widths. Every other line is IRT-derived, except for the Green Line which is pretty much akin to the Newark City Subway in how it's structured.
Of course, there was another set of cars derived from the "A/B" Standards - Staten Island's ME-1's. When electrifying, SIRT adopted the BMT specs in track and third rails, positioning thereof, and so on.
Last edited by W.B. Fishbowl on Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 23618
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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This 1970 photo from Boston easily could have been taken at a "Tee-Yay" or "stoa" yard, in the later 1960's/early 70's..............
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?152934
(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
["New York City Transit Authority"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 23618
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| W.B. Fishbowl wrote: | | I'd been to Boston way back in '88, and there'd be a case for that - because what is now the "Red Line" there is the only one in that town to have BMT-type specs, down to the car widths. Every other line is IRT-derived, except for the Green Line which is pretty much akin to the Newark City Subway in how it's structured. |
W.B.:
Agreed; very good point.
Recall. also,the old Orange and Blue line cars in Boston were virtually identical to PATH's old "PA" series (the "Blue" line, of course, also uses overhead catenary)...............
"NYO"
["T"]
Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Tue Sep 26, 2023 8:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 2716
Location: New York, New York, USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | This 1970 photo from Boston easily could have been taken at a "Tee-Yay" or "stoa" yard, in the later 1960's/early 70's..............
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?152934
(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
["New York City Transit Authority"] |
Just how many thought the "Pattons" in their appearance, were considered "Sherman" wannabes in the way the Flx "Dangerfields" were considered wannabe Fishbowls, I wonder, over the years? The "Pattons," however, having also done service in Manhattan (mostly via Surface, "Bee O'Tee" / "Tee-Yay" and Avenue B & East Broadway routes), did have a bit more respect than the "Flxies" - except maybe with FACCo, which only used them on their 15 Jackson Heights line, then that whole fleet would be transferred to Surface in all their final years. |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 2716
Location: New York, New York, USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | Recall. also,the old Orange and Blue line cars in Boston were virtually identical to PATH's old "PA" series (the "Blue" line, of course, also uses overhead catenary)...............
"NYO"
["T"] |
Again, I can attest to that: I was at varying times in my visit on all four lines.
Where Boston differs: Their third rails are exposed a la Chicago's 'L's' and two subway lines (Red and Blue), not covered as in "Noo Yawk" or even PATH or LIRR. |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 23618
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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W.B:
All good points, for certain.
Too, remember, that the "Sherman" (both YELLOW and "Gee-Em") were noted for their modern, standee windows, a feature that MACK certainly did not ignore on its postwar buses!
The "Dangerfield", I've always thought, lacked the graceful lines of the Fishbowl, and presented a tougher, heftier, boxier look, FLXIBLE's equivelant to the "Patton".
Recall, also, the "New Look" MACK transits; they might have been considered having a "new look" with their modernized front ends, but, in no way, even hinted at the "Gee-EM" Fishbowl/New Look............. |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 23618
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2023 12:00 am Post subject: |
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Another "Noo Yawk"/Boston comparison.......
The old "Main Line" El no longer exists; in upper Manhattan, Brooklyn, and Queens, however, subway trains still travel along what are, of course, classified as "Els".
In Boston, the "GREEN LINE"cars also utilized an elevated structure (once used by El trains, in part, near the now-gone North Station); I took a number of photos back in 1991 and 1997.
The "GREEN LINE" is now underground at this location.
In "Noo Yawk", B&QT streetcars utilized complex elevated trackage on the Brooklyn side of the Brooklyn Bridge, in the vicinity of Sands Street.
Too, until the B&QT's Nortons Point streetcars stopped running, a direct elevated connection could be made between the streetcars and the "Bee-Em-Tee" trains at Stillwell Avenue.
In Boston, there were locations were streetcars (and buses) climbed up ramps to cavernous stations where direct transfers could be made the the El trains.
There is an interesting photo in Brian J. Cudahy's "CHANGE AT PARK STREET UNDER"(1972) showing the interior of the cavernous, elevated train shed at Sullivan Square; here, we see a Fishbowl awaiting passengers from an incoming "Main Line" El train..........
"NYO"
["LECHMERE VIA SUBWAY"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 23618
Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 23618
Location: NEW JOISEY
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 2716
Location: New York, New York, USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2023 4:56 am Post subject: |
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That station name was also the name of a production company comprised of TV producer William Asher and his then-wife, actress Elizabeth Montgomery, that handled co-production of the final (1971-72) season of the series she'd starred in since its 1964 debut, Bewitched. A few 1970-71 episodes were filmed in Salem, MA.
That car side looks almost like a 'Q', no? |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 2716
Location: New York, New York, USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2023 4:58 am Post subject: |
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Or perhaps 'Tee-Yay's' Fresh Pond yard in 1972-73? |
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traildriver
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 2475
Location: South Florida
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2023 7:16 am Post subject: |
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I am glad that the Standards did not adapt the outside sliding doors, but instead used the pocket doors. I was never a fan of outside hung doors, then or now... |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 23618
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2023 8:28 am Post subject: |
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traildriver:
Recall that the BMT, many eons ago, DID, in fact have cars with outdoor hung doors; these were the elevated "C" units, rebuilt from open-platform El cars; these trains were retired in 1956.
Too, on the IRT, the MUDC cars (also rebuilt from open platform El cars) also had outside hung doors (retired in 1955, when the Manhattan section of the 3rd Avenue El closed)...........
"NYO"
["NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT SYSTEM"] |
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