BusTalk

[RailBus63]

The Public Service 'All Service Vehicle' concept is fascinating to me. I finally picked up the Motor Coach Age issue from 1974 that details their history and have enjoyed learning more about the operation. It's a shame that PSNJ turned its back on the concept and never bought a fleet of Old Look dual mode buses to go with D900 and update the fleet - I'm sure that we would have seen 40-foot ASV's by the early 1950's.

Jim D.

[andy47]

It was not mentioned, but no doubt implied, that from about 1935 till around 1950 PSCT had a large fleet of hybrid, all-service vehicles that could be opereated as diesel-electric buses without wires or as electric buses under wires. It was the retirement of these vehicles that prompted PSCT to experiment with D900. By then the diesel hydraulic bus had become the industry standard.

What is also interesting is that had D900 been mass produced and run in the Newark City Subway tunnel it would have predated the Seattle, WA bus tunnel by 45 years.

[Mr. Linsky]

Seen in January of 1977 at the facility of Central Oklahoma Transportation and Parking Authority (COTAPA) in Oklahoma City is fleet # 636 - a 1959 TDH 4512 and one of thirty-six likenesses originally numbered C 601 to C 636 and delivered in increments between 1957 and 1959 to COTAPA's predecessor, City Bus Company.

In the oddity department, we see very rare 'Pantographic' windshield wipers which have the ability to clean a greater surface than the standard arc type by maintaining the blades in an upright or vertical position as they sweep across the glass.

Aside from New York City's 121 1958 GM TDH 5106's (the 9000's) that came so equipped I have only seen one or two other specimens and I believe that GM was experimenting with them for later use on their first phase New Looks.

The other oddity on # 636 is the strange device attached between the first passenger window and the front door and I invite speculation as to what it is.

I can't believe that it's a rear view mirror for the driver but it could be either a mirror for the floor men for close parking at the garage or possibly a guard against passengers sticking their hands out the window and getting them caught in the front doors.

In any event, I've seen them on other buses and virtually all the GM Old Looks ordered by Los Angeles came with them.

Photo courtesy of '4509bus' and is up for bid on eBay as item #370696680856.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[timecruncher]

Oklahoma City is a place where few transit photos seem to exist. I know practically nothing about the operation, although the current operation is pretty miserable for a large city operation (similar to Tulsa, upstate a few miles). There is little weekday service, less Saturday service, no Sunday service and for all intents and purposes no night service - just like Tulsa.

Good find...

timecruncher

[frankie]

Here we see Los Angeles Railway #6010, one of 20 TD-4502 Yellow Coaches (6005-6024) delivered in Dec 1940.

What make these buses unusual are the swinging mechanical signal arms just aft of the driver, not unlike those used on school buses during this time period.

Frankie

Image courtesy of the Metrolibrary via flicker

[frankie]

TDH-4008 Argentina style! GM old looks besides the U.S. and Canada were also exported to Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay. These countries, especially Argentina have been known to rebuilt and modify old looks to keep them running long past their life expectancy - some modified to the point that they are almost unrecognizable.

The bus in the accompanying photos identified as a TDH-4008 according to it's original captions lies peacefully in its deteriorated state and is nothing more than an empty shell of it's former self. As the photos show, the sides are still original, but the front and rear caps have been heavily modified with the original jack knife type front door being replaced with double doors.

Frankie

Images courtesy of Bus-America for educational purposes

[Mr. Linsky]

frankie,

The pictures are great;

The directional signals on Los Angeles Railway (LAR) # 6010 were known as 'semaphore' much like Navy flags and were operated by what amounted to clothes lines on pulleys! (designed basically for sale to 'el cheapo' operators!).

The Argentine junker, if it is Yellow/GM at all, would be a 4500 series by virtue of the seven + three window set-up (that is to say; seven passenger windows between the front and rear doors and three full windows beyond that - just as is seen on LAR 6010).

If it ever was Yellow/GM, they sure did a great job of camouflaging that fact and for what reason I'll never know because changing the front and rear clips would do little to extend the life of the bus that was already built to last forever!

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[JimmiB]

Taking a good look at that Argentine relic, it is almost definately not a Yellow/GM bus. While the window spacing is the same as GM 4500 series, some other things are not. The standee windows on the GMs are an integral part of the roof stampings. The Argentine bus has standee window openings that appear to be seperate pieces with a bead where they meet the roof. Also, on the interior photo, the window sections above the belt line have a slight slope toward the roof. GMs are straight. Finally, the lower sill under the windows is fastened to the body by a single row of rivets. Every GM that I know of had a double row.
I think what we have here is the possibility that a foreign manufactuer did a reasonable job of trying to duplicate a Yellow/GM.

That LA bus is a beautiful example of a Yellow Coach. Great photo!

[frankie]

With the introduction of Thermo-matic heating and ventilation in 1946, the TDH-3610 replaced the TDH-3609, doing away with the rooftop "ears".

Here we see Calgary Transit TDH-3610 number 318, one of 10 acquired by the company in June 1947. What was unusual with this bus was what looks like an auxiliary ventilation system in addition to the factory equipped system. Note the extra rectangular vent at the top along with ductwork that slightly protrudes along the length of the roof. I can only assume that this is an aftermarket addition and am not sure if all 10 buses had this feature.

Another oddity is the non-standard bumper.

Frankie

Photo courtesy of William Luke & Linda Metler for educational purposes only.

[Mr. Linsky]

frankie,

Very interesting photo of Calgary # 318 - below is a shot of # 324 of the same group and displaying identical oddities so we can assume that all of the company's 3610's were so equipped.

I have never seen this auxiliary vent over the ThermoMatic intake on a GM Old Look before and can only take a stab at what I think it could be;

The ThermoMatic heating systems, which introduced warm air through ducts above the passenger windows, were notoriously poor heaters except during times of full loads principally because heat rises and would take too long to warm a partially occupied cabin especially in the extreme cold weather up north.

On all of Green Line's (NY) ThermoMatic Old Looks, optional under seat heaters were ordered because of this problem.

I think the Calgary people installed some type of after market ceiling heating to augment the ThermoMatic units.

BTW; there's another oddity that you missed on # 318 (which also appears on # 324); notice the after market auxiliary directional signal just under the first passenger window which was intended to notify passing vehicles on either side of the bus of the driver's intent to turn (this became standard equipment by law on all buses in the mid fifties).

Another BTW; the front bumpers on these buses are probably also after market because they're not of GM design.

Credit for photo which is being used for educational purposes only is seen within frame.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[RailBus63]

[Mr. Linsky]

RailBus63,

I agree - there were operators country wide that opted out on Thermo-Matic units for one reason or another and not the least of which being heating problems.

However, transit buses bound for New York State properties had no choice in the matter.

From as early as the late twenties, New York required full time mechanical ventilation (not under the driver's control) on all transit buses based in the state.

Every different manufacturer (except for Mack) had their own roof mounted concoctions with GM having two motor cages (one over the front door and one over the drivers seat (as seen on Green Line (NY) # 912 below).

When Thermo-Matic heating and ventilation was introduced on GM coaches in mid 1946 it included the full time circulation feature and the company ceased manufacture of the roof cages.

Photo courtesy of Jay Rogers and owned by this writer.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[Mr. Linsky]

If this isn't a classic case of making a silk purse of a sow's ear, I don't know what is!

Pictured in 1963 at rest at Eliot Avenue and 69th. Street in Middle Village, Queens and awaiting its next run on the Q 45X route is fleet # 1126 - a 1946 GM Coach Model TD 4506 and the only 4506 in the stable of Triboro Coach Corporation of Jackson Heights, New York.

At first look, I thought the coach to be just another of Triboro's many TDH 4507's until I spotted the familiar ventilation motor nests and fresh air dampers of a 4506 model on the roof.

I suspected that it might have been a transfer from commonly owned Green Bus Lines until I checked Triboro's roster and was amazed to find that # 1126 was ex Surface Transportation # 1104 that was purchased in 1959.

It must have been the best of the worst for Triboro to even think of tackling its rehabilitation (if you are familiar with the average condition of a Surface bus) but tackle it they did making it 'showcase' new with a re-face of the front clip that included recessed headlamps, updated directional signals, stainless steel wings and badge, heavy 'paired window type' bumper and a dummy Thermomatic intake above the destination sign for good measure - a renovation that certainly deserved kudos for its outcome!

Too bad that # 1126 wasn't preserved.

Photo courtesy of 'iconpix' and is up for bid on eBay as item # 350682492010.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[timecruncher]

And check out the fender skirts on that Falcon parked on the other side of the street!

timecruncher

[frankie]

And don't forget whitewall tires! When's the last time you saw one (excluding collector cars)?

And speaking of whitewalls, how about on a bus? The only companies I know of that had them in their fleet were Peter Pan and Blue Bird Coaches (Salamanca, NY). Were there others?

Frankie