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Mr. Linsky, your expert assistance is needed!!

 
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 4296
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:45 pm    Post subject: Mr. Linsky, your expert assistance is needed!! Reply with quote

Sir: Hopefully, you might be able to help me "unlock the mystery" surrounding this VERY old and rare roll sign (sans box) that was given to me some 12 years ago. It is a front roller curtain, obviously from a northern NJ carrier, so you'd THINK I would be familiar with the readings on the curtain.

At first, I thought it might have been from the long-defunct Orange & Black, which I was most familiar with while growing growing up, but, it's clear that many of the readings were NOT from the O&B. Here are the readings:

CLIFFSIDE PARK WEST NEW YORK NO. BERGEN UNION CITY

CAR FULL

NEW YORK 34TH 42ND 51st STS.

CLIFFSIDE PARK PALISADES AMUSEMENT PARK

CHARTERED

NEW YORK CITY

MONTICELLO-LIBERTY

NEW YORK-BROOKLYN

BRONX ONLY JOURNAL SQUARE NEW YORK VIA H&M TUBES

KEARNY-RUTHERFORD VIA RIDGE RD.

I know that PSNJ, O&B, and NHBL lines once served Cliffside, but, the NEW YORK-BROOKLYN/ JOURNAL SQUARE/ MONTICELLO-LIBERTY/ KEARNY-RUTHERFORD readings have long been a mystery to me. A couple long-gone companies I considered were GARDEN STATE LINES and BLUE COACH.

Here again, I am only speculating. As I know you have quite a bit of extensive knowlege on "metro" area bus lines of years past, I'm hoping you might be able to even shed a little light on this "mystery sign"! Thanks in advance, John
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Hart Bus



Age: 67
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John, I am not Mr. Linsky nor do I have the answer. I grew up in Queens so my knowledge of Jersey companies is slim to none. I do remember as a teenager wanting to go to Palisades Amusement Park one Saturday. Too young to drive at the time, I went, by subway, to the Bus Termainal at the George Washington Bridge and took a bus from there. Notable because the driver had to swerve to avoid a car shooting out of a driveway or side street. It was so sudden that a handicapped person sitting behind him fell off the bench.

I just won a postcard on E-bay of Inter-City Lines.....Could this have been the company? How about Red & Tan. Just guesses on my part.

Hart Bus
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 4296
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hart Bus: Thanks for responding, and I do appreciate you taking the time! Very Happy I had briefly thought of Red & Tan, but, then dismissed it, as I have no recollection that Red & Tan served some of the areas listed on the roller, but, THEN AGAIN, I COULD be wrong.

The Manhattan destinations tell me that this roller dated from the pre-PABT era (1950). I well remember Red & Tan serving the GWB terminal as a kid; Inter-City, I will admit, I never considered, and, IMHO, is not in the running, as the company never came near the North Bergen/Nungessers area, nor the Bronx, so far as I know.

When I was growing up in the 60s, Inter-City's #97 (JSQ-Paterson) ran along Hudson Boulevard, right by our apartment building. The suburbans used on this run were a bus fan's dream, comprising of TWO White models, Old Looks, and ACF-Brills....man, WHAT A SHOW!! Shocked Shocked Very Happy Very Happy

The MONTICELLO-LIBERTY listing gets me to thinking that this MIGHT have been a BLUE COACH route (company was based out of Little Ferry, NJ, but also served upstate NY locations such as Beacon and Poughkeepsie).

Back in the old days, there were many, many long-defunct northern NJ carriers with dozens and dozens of routes now long-forgotten, so, quite truthfully, it's anyone's guess as to what line this ancient roller curtain originated from!! Let's see what happens!! John
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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John,

This is the answer I received from one Jersey specialist but I'm still waiting to hear from Jeff Marinoff who is the 'bible' on the subject!

I'll try. This is a mixture of a little bit of everything.

Orange and Black
North Hudson County Boulevard
Garden State Lines
Inter City Lines
Mountain Transit (an Inter City subsidiary)

I think that the sign might be from one of the smaller carriers that did supplemental work for some or all of them. Any of the carriers above would have much more on their signs as they had many more routes. My thoughts are with B&F Bus Service in Jersey City and/or Glen-Ridge Lines in Queens.

A real mystery


Signed Tripstop 80

Mr. 'L'
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. "L": TREMENDOUS thanks to you and your friends, for shedding MORE light upon this "mystery roller" than I had EVER expected!! Very Happy Wow!! Talk about a conglomeration!! Shocked I see that I was right on some of the readings being "in sync" with Orange & Black and North Hudson Boulevard. This is bringing to mind something I've thought about for many years.

It was pretty obvious that there was, years ago, some sort of "family ties" between North Hudson Boulevard, South Hudson Boulevard, and Red & Tan. Long ago, I well recall passing by the old Hudson Bus garage on Tonnelle Avenue in Jersey City, and seeing Boulevard coaches alongside Red & Tan units.

Also, I can remember (this is going back to the 60s) small diesel repair facilities on Tonnele Avenue, particulary in the North Bergen area, where you'd see buses from North Hudson Bouevard, Red & Tan, and Inter-City awaiting work. (Tri-State Diesel was one of these small facilities). Here again, the "family ties" scenario is coming into play.

I was just a kid back then, but I distinctly recall a "kissin' kin" feeling with some carriers, particulary Drogin, North Boulevard, and Red & Tan. Again, Mr. "L", THANK YOU for the time and effort of yourself and your friends! MUCH appreciated! Very Happy John


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This just in!

The New Jersey master is on it - as he says; stand by!

Mr. 'L'


I've sent this around to some guys who might be able to unlock the mystery. Stand by.... My question is, why "CAR FULL" and not BUS FULL?

Jeff Marinoff
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And here's another response - pretty soon you'll have everybody investigating your roll sign!

Mr. 'L'


"BRONX ONLY JOURNAL SQUARE NEW YORK VIA H&M TUBES"

I always thought that the H&M tubes was the Hudson & Manhattan subway.

Actually I just Googled it to see what else it could be it only came up with the subway. Since it says Car Full could this be from a subway car.

Just speculation.

John Peakman
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another precinct heard from (and this is the famous Michael T. Greene!).

Perhaps it was a Hudson Transit Lines sign...Monticello sounds like a Hudson Transit destination, and during the summer, they did run buses to the Catskills from the Bronx and Brooklyn-MTG

Mr. 'L'
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. "L": Man, is THIS getting INTERESTING!! Shocked Shocked Regarding the "CAR FULL" sign, I know from old photos I've seen over the years (as well as personal recollections as a young boy) that certain companies utilized "CAR FULL" signs instead of "BUS FULL" (look at how many of us still use the term "CARfare"!!) Shocked I can also remember signs reading "BUS FOLLOWING" and "NEXT BUS" as well.

The H&M Tubes (the H&M RR) was bought taken over by the Port Authority in 1962, and became "PATH" (although, many "old-timers" like myself STILL refer to PATH as "The Tubes"). In fact, as recently as the late 1990s, Academy's Flx Metros had HUGE roller signs reading "HOBOKEN PATH TUBES" when operating into Hoboken.

Going further back, I can remember some Hoboken/Jersey City-area "indies" having roller curtains which read "PATH TUBES". Regarding the "BRONX ONLY" reading: even before the GWB bus terminal was built around 1962, NJ buses had long been operating into upper Manhattan via the bridge (PSNJ/Inter-City/Red & Tan, etc.)

So, if Jersey coaches were already this far uptown, it would not have surprised me if some NJ companies had service into the Bronx as well, many, many years ago.Yes....this is getting to be MOST intriguing, and I'm truly glad I decided to make an inquiry!! Thanks again!! Very Happy John
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:
Another precinct heard from (and this is the famous Michael T. Greene!).

Perhaps it was a Hudson Transit Lines sign...Monticello sounds like a Hudson Transit destination, and during the summer, they did run buses to the Catskills from the Bronx and Brooklyn-MTG

Mr. 'L'
Mr. "L": Yes, this IS indeed more "food for thought"!! Shocked I had forgotten about "HUDSON TRANSIT"; perhaps this company is/was somehow connected with my roller sign. I couldn't even contact the person whom sent it to me about ten years ago; he was an elderly gentleman then, I have no idea if he is even still with us. Sure hope he is!

But, I have not heard from him in several years, and have no way to try to contact him. Then again, chances are that even HE would not have known the full story!! And so, one of Life's Great Mysteries continues to unfold...... Very Happy John

BTW:

For what it's worth, both the Orange & Black and Inter-City was taken over by the Maplewood Equipment Company, around 1977.


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John,

When I drove for Green Line (NY) years ago, we referred to any 'graveyard' shift as working the 'night car'.

I do think though that 'carfare' was a carry over from trolley car days!

Mr. 'L'
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. "L" : Yes, "carfare" is indeed a trolley era-holdover! Even in the era of buses, my parents, and, in fact, most of the folks in my NJ neighborhood back when I was growing up, used the term 'carfare" when referring to fares paid on the bus! ( STILL do!!) Very Happy

And, speaking of long-obsolete readings on bus roller curtains, "MORSEMERE" and COYTESVILLE" (old Fort Lee-area nabes) were STILL seen on the roller curtains of former Orange & Black, Manhattan Lines, and Westwood Transportation coaches well into the NJT era, before they were finally retired.

Only older folks seem to recall these once-commonly known neighborhoods today! Sad Where have all the years gone....?? Rolling Eyes John
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HwyHaulier




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PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

APB -

Usage of "CAR"? Long time at Greyhound, the coaches were often referred to as cars. Then, the Big Brown Machine and the way
it does business. The local pickup and delivery units perform the Brown Car duties...

Respect the Big Brown Machine! Resistance is futile!

....................Vern..............
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HwyHaulier wrote:
APB -

Usage of "CAR"? Long time at Greyhound, the coaches were often referred to as cars. Then, the Big Brown Machine and the way
it does business. The local pickup and delivery units perform the Brown Car duties...

Respect the Big Brown Machine! Resistance is futile!

....................Vern..............
Vern: You've rekindled an old, old "on topic" memory for yours truly! Very Happy Back in '74, when I was a senior in high school, my last leg of my commute home from classes was via TNJ's #21 from Hoboken, aboard an ex-PSNJ Z-300-series Fishbowl.

Except for Mondays, my driver was Angelo, an old-time PS vet, who loved nothing better than to relate to me tales of the glory era of PS. Anyway, whenever the bus got really packed, he's say: " Yeah, I'm really haulin' a CARFUL today!" Shocked 'nuff said(!!) Very Happy John
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