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4104s With Two Speed Rear Axles
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Dieseljim
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Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 548
Location: Perry, NY

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:05 am    Post subject: 4104s With Two Speed Rear Axles Reply with quote

When Lockport Bus Lines was still in business, I noticed that at least one of the PD4104s that I rode on had a button on the gearshift for what appeared to be a two speed axle, giving the bus driver as many as 8 gear ratios to play with, though it wasn't used that trip. Does anyone have any idea of what bus lines bought 4104s that were so equipped?
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HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dieseljim -

Fuller Road Ranger with the Splitter! Many of the Trailways members couldn't get enough of them! So equipped, they were quite a bit quicker
off the line, compared with a similar coach without the splitter feature...

..................Vern............
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although I don't know this for sure, it wouldn't surprise me if New York's Carey Transportation 4104's and even their 4106's may have been so equipped.

They accelerated extremely rapidly from a standing start and it took them about two city blocks to run through the gears.

When I drove Green Line's (NY) Q60 Queens Boulevard route I would often catch a red light in the service lane while, at the same time, a Carey would catch the same signal in the express lane.

When the light would change, I was left in the dust, even though I was driving a 4512 that had a pretty good pickup.

Speed was of the essence on their airport runs so I guess they put in whatever it took to make those buses roll!

Pictured below courtesy of the New York Public Library is a Carey 4104 at the TWA terminal at New York International Airport (now JFK).

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

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roymanning2000



Age: 71
Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 194

PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim and All,

What you're probably referring to was called Hydrashift. There was quite a bit of discussion about it a couple of years ago on the Trailways Bus Driver Yahoo group.

Not that many 4104's had it and it came toward the end of production. I might be wrong but I don't believe it was a Fuller Road Ranger. Spicer or Allison maybe.

Roy
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roymanning2000



Age: 71
Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 194

PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. L,

I didn't get the photo. I must have something set wrong because I'm not getting any of the pictures. Is there a setting I need to fix somewhere?

When Timecruncher posted the photos of the restored Green Line 3612 and the Dayton trolley coaches the other day, they came through beautifully. But, everything else, I no get.

Thanks,

Roy
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HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

roymanning2000 wrote:
..What you're probably referring to was called Hydrashift. There was quite a bit of discussion about it a couple of years ago on the Trailways Bus Driver Yahoo group...


Roy -

Have you noted any web references to Hydrashift possibility? A search yielded result (link next), see last report on the page of items.
But, the application is heavy trenchers. http://www.etrucker.com/apps/news/article.asp?id=55316

The Trailways coaches I recall, from the early 1960s, noted by by a small switch, with up and down positions. It was on the shift "stick",
and mounted so that its notable red button was easily used while one had a hand on the shift lever knob. While I didn't drive any of the
coaches, the operators noted it as a Roadranger feature. See: http://www.roadranger.com/Roadranger/index.htm

In more recent use, the Roadranger noted by a small lever, integrated into top of knob. It is activated with back and forth positions. In
addition, on heavy truck (Class 8) use, the several "top end" ranges act more like an automatic trans.

The coaches I recall were on Safeway Trailways. Noting the timeline, the option likely had the blessing of Continental...

...............Vern...............
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

roymanning2000 wrote:
Mr. L,

I didn't get the photo. I must have something set wrong because I'm not getting any of the pictures. Is there a setting I need to fix somewhere?

When Timecruncher posted the photos of the restored Green Line 3612 and the Dayton trolley coaches the other day, they came through beautifully. But, everything else, I no get.

Thanks,

Roy


Roy,

I really can't help you because I am not proficient in how these photo transfers work or why you're receiving some images and not others.

It could be the way I'm placing mine, but I know of no other method although ripta42 tried to explain a way through the Gallery but I couldn't understand.

ripta42 (the webmaster) usually monitors the posts and he may try to answer your question.

Were you able to see the 'Korea Greyhound' pictures I put on the other day?

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY
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roymanning2000



Age: 71
Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 194

PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HwyHaulier,

Last night, I went back and looked at some of the discussion on Hydrashift on the Trailways Yahoo group. The Hydrashift feature was a two-speed clutch coupled to a three-speed transmission. I didn't find any reference to the make of the transmission.

The two-speed clutch was initially used by GM (in buses, anyway) on the Scenicruisers. They offered it on 4104's from 1958 until 1960. One of the posters said it was rendered obsolete by later transmissions, including the Roadranger.

Roy
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roymanning2000



Age: 71
Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 194

PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. L,

Thanks, anyway. Iit's not just your photos. I'm not getting the photos that anyone posts except for those from Timecruncher the other day.

I'll keep trying to figure it out.

Roy
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HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roy -

Many Thanks! Hmmm... I must have missed the subtle distinction. A possibility it was there for all to see on the introduction of the Scenicruiser
units? Problem there, Greyhound quickly found the pitfalls in the, "...it seemed like a good idea at the time..." approaches to the power plant...

Recall the intense rivalry between Greyhound, and especially Continental Trailways. There was a general feeling that if one would do one thing,
the other would do the complete opposite! CTS had a way of marching to its own drummer! So, CTS favored Roadranger?

As for Road Ranger. I was aware of the "little red button" shifts on Safeway as early as, oh, circa 1958? I always thought it was a Roadranger
design (and likely had comments from various drivers).

I know I was quite aware of the Roadranger during the mid 1960s. The truck fleets had great enthusiasm for the option, as it was an excellent
approach in getting the most out of the comparatively small motors of the time. In addition, some of the noisest proponents I can recall held
experience with Oklahoma City and Dallas based fleets. For the most part, use of Roadranger assured a fairly quick "top end" on the equipment,
while it delivered a number of other benefits. Back then, a casual relationship with speed limits was not a vice!...

BTW. Doesn't the label, Hydrashift suggest it was a GMC - Allison OEM design? Likely, we recall separate designs from two different vendors?

.....................Vern.................
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roymanning2000



Age: 71
Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 194

PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vern,

You certainly know a lot more about these transmissions than I do. What I've posted about Hydrashift is simply from reading the posts of guys who drove buses that were equipped with it. I agree that it sounds like we may be talking about different things.

Roy
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Dieseljim
Deceased



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 548
Location: Perry, NY

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:55 pm    Post subject: 4104s with Two speed Rear Axles Reply with quote

It would be most likely Spicer, since GM used a lot of Spicer 4 speed manual; trannies in both their highway coaches and suburban coaches. On that 4104 that I rode on, I never saw the Hydrashift feature used, since, on the outbound leg to Lockport from downtown Buffalo, the bus driver would s top at most any corner where flagged to pick up passengers going to Lockport, which could be quite a few stops if the bus left Greyhound only half full. That particular trip usually had a pretty good crowd aboard and I don't believe any of Lockport's drivers knew anything about the Hydarshift feature in some of their 4104s.
roymanning2000 wrote:
Jim and All,

What you're probably referring to was called Hydrashift. There was quite a bit of discussion about it a couple of years ago on the Trailways Bus Driver Yahoo group.

Not that many 4104's had it and it came toward the end of production. I might be wrong but I don't believe it was a Fuller Road Ranger. Spicer or Allison maybe.

Roy
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HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:01 pm    Post subject: Re: 4104s with Two speed Rear Axles Reply with quote

Dieseljim wrote:
It would be most likely Spicer, since GM used a lot of Spicer 4 speed manual; trannies in both their highway coaches and suburban coaches...

Jim -

Had a call today from my long time, "Road Runner" friend. We were into a discussion of the business of splitter rears...

He suggested that the Trailways coaches of the era (IIRC, 4104 and 4106 types) had Spicer assemblies.

Otherwise, we had a logical problem. He noted, in Roadranger practice, a red button used on a thirteen (13) speed. As a highway coach
doesn't need it, the dilemma is apparent. I still don't recall similar hardware on Greyhound equipment...

......................Vern.....................
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Steve Carras



Age: 58
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I very much know of those..

From some website "Some Trailways Unit" also had a 2-speed differential".

And someone mentioned that they had the GM INTERCITY COACHES book. I have that book,too! Here's what they mentioned..In 1959, the Hydrashift mentioned became avaible to the 4104's. A la the Scenicruisers when first intro'd [in their experimental stages.]
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Steve Carras



Age: 58
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Dieseljim & Hwhyauler, that was a feature on some Trailkways buses as mentioned, the two-speed rear. And Dieseljim's correct in that post--two bad he died a bit too soon to still be here----GMC bought manual transmissions only from Spicer.
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