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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 32755
Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 32755
Location: NEW JOISEY
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 Posted: Sun May 31, 2026 11:00 am Post subject: |
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This "ket's get it done any oild way" tiling job indeed shows lack of workmanship, let alone "eyeing it" properly....... 
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1465
(courtesy:nycsubway.org)
["SUBWAY"] |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 59
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 4864
Location: New York, New York, USA
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2026 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | The hideous "refrigerator tile"of the 70s wsas indeed a n insult to the handsome tilework of decades back..........
"NYO"
["BMT LINES"] |
Not to mention making the side platforms more crowded . . . many inches were lost when such "refrigerator tile" was added. |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 32755
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2026 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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W.B.:
It's funny, I always thought that the "refrigerator tile" made the platforms more narrow;l all I knew is that they totally turned me off, especially when i thinkig what historic tilework was sacrificed.... 
"NYO"
["M'] |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 59
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 4864
Location: New York, New York, USA
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2026 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | W.B.:
It's funny, I always thought that the "refrigerator tile" made the platforms more narrow;l all I knew is that they totally turned me off, especially when i thinkig what historic tilework was sacrificed....
"NYO"
["M'] |
That's what I meant, the narrowing meant the passengers had to closely congregate in more claustrophobic spaces. But yeah. "Progress," indeed.  |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 32755
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2026 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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W.B.:
Was looking at BSS station photos earlier; tje overall style of station signage/design clearly was inspired by "NooYawk".
I've long considered the BSS to be the "Eye-En-Dee's" Philly cousin......
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?17036
(courtesy: nycsubway)
["SUBWAU"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 32755
Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 32755
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2026 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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Considering the fact that the "Aitch & Em's" original 33rd Street terminal was demolished to make way for the IND's 6th Avenue line, it is of little surprise that the new "Toity-Toid"Street terminal would be "im sync" with the modern Independent..........
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?21757
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?24765
(courtesy:nycsubway.org)
["33"]
Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sun May 31, 2026 7:24 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 59
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 4864
Location: New York, New York, USA
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2026 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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The platform edge from track center to rubbing board, from "Aitch & Em" days, was always 4' 7-1/2", thus - with the "Bee O'Tee" building the "new" "Toity-Toid" Street terminus, the edge from the concrete platform structure was set at 4' 11". This was in line with how they were building station platforms in those days; dating back to 1923, their specs were:
- BMT & IND: temporary platform edge, 5' 2"; permanent platform edge, 5' 5-1/2"
- IRT: temporary platform edge, 4' 8-1/4"; permanent platform edge, 4' 11-3/4"
(given that H&M cars' width over the door threshold was 8' 10-1/2", and IRT's 8' 9-1/2", why couldn't have there been a swap of platform edge specs?)
The rubbing board width, in all cases, was 3-1/2", its height 2".
And of course, the "new" "Toity-Toid" Street terminus had the track roadbed done "Type II" IND-style.
I would not be surprised if, in the section encapsulating the IND's own 34th Street-6th Avenue station, there would have been cross-sections of the "new" H&M terminus in the contract drawings. |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 32755
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2026 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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W.B.:
Indeed appreciate your "in depth" speqs that is most fascinating (you certainly know your stuff, my friend!) 
The original "Toity-Toid" Street terminal was built along the lines of the Hoboken terminal, with a mezzanine/fare control area ABOVE platform level (and built one block south of the original)
It's support columns and arches were also similar to those at Hoboken and at Pavonia (then "ERIE")
Interesting, that, while the new "Toity-Toid" Street terminal was indeed IND-inspired, the rolling stock was certainly more im sync to that of the "Eye-Are-Tee"............
"NYO"
["HUDSON RAPID TUBES"] |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 59
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 4864
Location: New York, New York, USA
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2026 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | W.B.:
Indeed appreciate your "in depth" speqs that is most fascinating (you certainly know your stuff, my friend!)
The original "Toity-Toid" Street terminal was built along the lines of the Hoboken terminal, with a mezzanine/fare control area ABOVE platform level (and built one block south of the original)
It's support columns and arches were also similar to those at Hoboken and at Pavonia (then "ERIE")
Interesting, that, while the new "Toity-Toid" Street terminal was indeed IND-inspired, the rolling stock was certainly more im sync to that of the "Eye-Are-Tee"............
"NYO"
["HUDSON RAPID TUBES"] |
Early H&M stations' concrete platform edge was 4' 10", thus the rubbing board width was 2.5". McAdoo and company sure built their pride and joy differently from the "Eye-Are-Tee," that's for sure.
I saw a picture of one angle of the c.1966 extension of the IRT's 34th Street-Penn Station northbound local platform. There was a bit of a gap between the edge of the older section platform, and the newer one. Since time had distorted the rubbing board position, it was slightly wider than it should have been. Difference between pre-1910's IRT platforms and post-1923:
- 1910's: Temporary platform edge, 4' 7-3/4"; permanent platform edge, 4' 9-1/2"
- 1920's: Temporary platform edge, 4' 8-1/4"; permanent platform edge, 4' 11-3/4"
This held up until the construction and opening of the new South Ferry terminus that replaced the "loop" terminal, after which the platform edge for new IRT stations was modified to ~4' 7". |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 32755
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2026 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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W.B.:
Again, THANK YOU for sharing this usually ignored knowledge with us here......true engineering, in the CLASSIC sense!
"NYO"
["IRT"]
["H&M"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 32755
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2026 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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W.B.:
In a 1965 booklet I have on the SIRT (put out by Silver Leaf Rapid Transit Models), in mentioning the abandoned North Shore line SIRT trackage to Arlington:
".....the only tangible reminders that the electric multiple-unit czars once ran along this line to note that every fifth tie is extra long; these supported the 'chair", which, in turn, supported the third rail......"
Is this "every fifth tie" scenario still used on the "Es-Eye-Are"?
What about the subways; what is the spacing between ties which carry the third rail chairs; or does it vary by division?
I thought you might shed some light on thiis......appreciate info.......
"NYO"
["RIDE THE RAPID"] |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 59
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 4864
Location: New York, New York, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2026 2:56 am Post subject: |
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| NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | W.B.:
In a 1965 booklet I have on the SIRT (put out by Silver Leaf Rapid Transit Models), in mentioning the abandoned North Shore line SIRT trackage to Arlington:
".....the only tangible reminders that the electric multiple-unit czars once ran along this line to note that every fifth tie is extra long; these supported the 'chair", which, in turn, supported the third rail......"
Is this "every fifth tie" scenario still used on the "Es-Eye-Are"?
What about the subways; what is the spacing between ties which carry the third rail chairs; or does it vary by division?
I thought you might shed some light on thiis......appreciate info.......
"NYO"
["RIDE THE RAPID"] |
They all have to do with "toid" rails, and would thus still be in effect.
According to a 1925 Electric Railway Journal article on the electrification of the "Es-Eye-Are-Tee," regular ties were 8' 6", while the longer ties on which the "toid" rail insulators and caps were mounted were 9' 6". (The ties' other dimensions were 9" x 7" - way different from the subways'.) From track center to edge the position of the "toid" rail tie was 5' 3" - two inches longer than on "Dual Contracts" IRT, BMT and later IND trackage.
Also, at the time the length of rails used (in this case, 100 lb. ARA-B) was 33', and spacing of ties was done 18 to a rail, with two "long" ties in that stretch. Mostly spaced 22.5" inches apart, except for where rail joints were positioned from one rail to another at which point the tie spacing was 18". (Seeing the Gotham Turnstiles book, I can confirm the "18 ties to a rail" spacing.)
In recent decades, all systems have switched from 33" length to 39" length, thus the tie spacing has changed markedly: 21 ties to a rail, mostly 24" apart except for the 18" spacing for where rail joints are.
By contrast, here were the standards on the subways of past:
IRT - 5" x 8" x 8', every fifth tie 5" x 8" x 8' 6"
Dual Contracts - 6" x 8" x 8', every fifth tie 6" x 8" x 9' 1"
IND (original): Half-ties 10" x 6" x 2' 6", every fifth half-tie 10" x 6" x 3' 10-1/2" (middle section 2' 5")
In the 1970's, rebuilt trackage on the subways had shifted to using the ties whose lengths matched what was by then "Es-Eye-Are-Tee-Oh-Ay," or "Seer-Toah" - 8' 6" and 9' 6", with the positioning of the latter modified to match the track center-to-tie edge spec of 5' 1". Which made such rebuilt sections look rather weird. (Seeing the displays of subway trucks at the Transit Museum, I can confirm that in spite of such a standards change, the 8" x 6" dimensions held for the subways, as that was what was used.) |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 32755
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2026 9:25 am Post subject: |
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W.B.
Your astute knowledge onthis fascinating subject is truly intriguing....AND, it also brings to light a VERYimportant part of our transit hobby......the RAILS that the trains RUN along, AND, the rails that POWER the train themselves (I also think thjat more emphasis should be induced on historical power stations, substations, etc)
Recall, of course,that the "toid rail"in "Noo Yawk" was always protected by a protective cover;in "Shik-aga", well, let's just say,"toid rail" wise, they indeed liked to live dangerously!
Could you imagine, back in the grade-crossing days of the "Es-Eye-Are-Tee", the "toid rails" being unprotected by ANY covering at crossings??
In Stan Fischler's classic "UPTOWN, DOWNTOWN",he stated that :"......om straight sections, rails last indefinately", while, curved rail wears out much for quickly, and has to be replaced more than straight sections....."
Pf course, he was talking about RUNNING rails.
To my way of thinking,I would not think that the same issues would effect "toid rail" on curved sections.
Also, recall London's, whose complex network "tubes", until fairly recently, used "conductor" rails that were cenyered BETWEEN the running rails, a la LIONEL..........
'NYO"
[["MAIN BREAKER SWITCH-5A"] |
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