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Question on Late Twin Coach engine

 
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LOTYBOY




Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:04 pm    Post subject: Question on Late Twin Coach engine Reply with quote

My band has just acquired a 1974 Highway Products Twin Coach bus that has 26,000 miles on it and has been parked for more than 10 years. It's in great shape, the guy used it for transporting people to and from church and then parked it when he retired and has been using it as a storage shed. Our hope is to fix it up, give it everything it could possibly need and then use it as a tour bus. We're well aware of the cost but having only paid 500 dollars for this bus we figure we're already way ahead of the game.

The problem is I have no idea what engine is currently inside of it. We know its a diesel and we opened the "hatch" inside the bus that looks down onto the engine and the sticker says its a GM and its clearly a V8 of some sort. Unfortunately this doesn't fit at all with the tiny amount of information I have been able to find about these buses online which says most were made with the Detroit Diesel 4-53. I suppose it could be the Series 71 but I cannot find any information online confirming or denying that engine was ever used.

I found this forum via google search and read a thread about the history of the Twin Coach brand which was interesting and knowledgeable but didn't really touch on engine use.

My question is does anybody have any information about the different engines used in the Highway Products Twin Coach Buses or if there is a way to identify exactly which engine is in my bus?

Here are a few pictures of the bus sorry about shot of the engine I doubt its of any use but this is all I have.











Thanks in advance guys!
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Free-transfer



Age: 64
Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 123
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope you don't mind...I enlarged and lightened the picture to
assist in identification by the real experts on this forum. I'm
not a mechanic, but do recognize your engine is blue and not
the Detroit Diesel green.

You say it's got GM printed somewhere
and it looks like a V-8. In that time period, GM was developing and
manufacturing a V-8 diesel for cars and light trucks based on the
350 cu (5.7L) V8 gas engine, with Oldsmobile and Cadillac offering them
as factory options.

From a non-expert point of view, I think anything bigger than say
a Detroit 4V53 or 6V53 would rip that bus apart on take-off,
provided it wasn't already doing a wheelie. I can see a small V8
like the above mentioned 5.7L or an International 444 V8 Diesel.

See if you can read the part # number off of the oil filter and etc.

I'd like to hear what the experts here come up with. You've
got me curious.

Best Regards,
Dennis

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Free-transfer



Age: 64
Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 123
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A name that just came up in a Google search for that bus...Deutz.
Deutz diesel was the third engine option from the factory.
Detroit, Caterpillar and Deutz.
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LOTYBOY




Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:09 am    Post subject: Thanks Reply with quote

Thanks for the info so far the Oil Filter is a Baldwin B6 I'll have to look to see if there is any other numbers on it.

Here are few better pics of the engine we took today.

The GM sticker


As close as I could get to the sticker


The text on the sticker is as followed.

Quote:

UNIT S/N 8g27731
BASE CIRCLE INJECTOR
TIMING HEIGHT FOR
SPECIFIC CYLINDER
POSITIONS:

CYLINDER # CYLINDER #
1 47.32 2 47.52
3 47.38 4 47.31
5 47.26 6 47.29
7 47.31 8 47.36

NOTE: TIMING HEIGHTS
ARE VALID ONLY UNTIL
CRANKSHAFT, CAMSHAFT
CYL, BLOCK, OR GEAR
TRAIN ARE CHANGED.

M/N 40877108

GM
155P4A


From the top down (Note: The GM sticker above is located on the left hand valve cover in this pic)


Theres also a number on the flywheel housing that number is 8020165 and below that it says 17 and has a B inside of a circle. Heres the pic.


There is another number here but I'm sure its just a part number still maybe it helps. That number is 3920152


Thanks again for all of your help. Theres really not a lot of information on these things out there.
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Q65A



Age: 66
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 1764
Location: Central NJ

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi!
I think it could possibly be a Perkins diesel (built in the U.K.) or a Detroit Diesel 4-53. I agree with free-transfer; a larger engine would have been too much for this type of chassis:
From "Encyclopedia of American Trucks & Buses" by Al Mroz:
"Highway Products, Inc. (1960-1975) of Kent, Ohio, was an outgrowth of the Twin Coach Company as well as Fageol-Twin Coach gasoline engine manufacturing along with the sales network for Leyland-Fageol diesel engines during the 1950's...For 1968, the company unveiled a 25-passenger bus that had a Chrysler V-8 engine mounted in the rear using an automatic transmission. Federal grant funds helped the development of this project. The new bus was called a Twin Coach, although its real connection was more geographic than by pedigree. In 1969, a 29-passenger model was also introduced. The first production series used a Perkins diesel engine. Subsequent to 1970, the buses used Detroit Diesel 4-53 engines and were built using these engines from then on. The first series also used hydraulic brakes, whereas after 1970 they were replaced by air brakes. In 1971, full air suspension was incorporated. The year 1974 was a poor one for Highway Products due to the continuation of production at guaranteed prices during a period when materials and labor became much more costly in a short time. When creditors refused additional financing, production stopped in 1975 for three months. To fulfill existing obligations, Highway Products resumed production in October 1975 and at that time delivered the last Twin Coach buses. Altogether 900 buses were built over eight years of manufacturing."
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Twin_Coach




Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 2
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:21 pm    Post subject: The Band Bus Reply with quote

Did you get her up and running?
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Dieseljim
Deceased



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 548
Location: Perry, NY

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 7:25 am    Post subject: This type of Twin Coach Bus Reply with quote

The NFTA in Buffalo bought a number of these buses specifically for a new route, 29-Wohlers, which they started up soon after taking over the NFT network. T hey felt that this Twin Coach bus was ideal for this new route since it was one of the first new cross town lines started in many years.
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Twin_Coach




Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 2
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broward County Tranist had 45 TC's in 1973. 5 different colors, green, yellow, blue, purple, and red. They sure were noisy with their 4 cylinder engines! I was a kid back then and liked riding on them more than the GM's. I was surprised to see the Disney World and Voltran in Daytona had TC's too.
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Dieseljim
Deceased



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 548
Location: Perry, NY

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:39 am    Post subject: Buffalo's TC buses Reply with quote

I believe the Buffalo Twin Coach buses had the Detroit 4 bangers as the 4/53 engines were called and they definitedly were very noisy, especially when starting up from a stop.
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nylogger



Age: 41
Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is deff. not a 2 stroke detroit. It lacks the key part to any 2 stroker. Thats the blower.
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shortlineMCI



Age: 54
Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 241

PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curious. He posted this originally ten months ago. He joined once and posted like once. Take it from experience. I seriously hope he got rid of it by now.
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