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On MTA and Budget Cuts

 
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Q65A



Age: 66
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
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Location: Central NJ

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:32 pm    Post subject: On MTA and Budget Cuts Reply with quote

Interesting article from the Regional Plan Association (www.rpa.org); whta do you folks think about this?

SHARE THE PAIN,REAP THE GAIN
by Jeffrey M. Zupan, Senior Fellow, Transportation, RPA

The MTA, which carries eight million riders a day on our regional subway, bus, and commuter rail networks, is in grave danger of sliding back into the abyss of a generation ago. This would be economically and environmentally catastrophic to New York City and the surrounding suburbs – and thus to the state as a whole.

We have a profound crisis on our hands. The MTA needs money, lots of it, to keep the transit service we have at a fare that we can afford – $1.2 billion, starting this July, for its operations, and in the long run, another $20 billion every five years to maintain, replace, upgrade, and expand transit for the Region’s survival.

Those of us who were on the scene in the 1970s – when the subways were a daily nightmare of cancelled trains, track fires, derailments, wall to wall to wall to wall graffiti, pervasive crime and even more pervasive fear of it, when Metro North and the LIRR were to be avoided rather than freely chosen – know what I am talking about. The condition of the transit system almost certainly helped to fuel the massive business flight out of the Region. One in five jobs in Manhattan evaporated between 1969 and 1977.

We cannot afford to let this happen again. We cannot afford to let the progress made on our transit system slip away. There are a half billion more riders a year on the subways, bus ridership is up by two-thirds, and commuter rail patronage up by almost one-quarter, all in the last fifteen years, the fruit of the re-investments that started in the 1980s.

We cannot afford to have the shift that has occurred toward transit – the share of travel to work trips using transit jumped up throughout the City and suburbs in the last five years – be reversed.

We cannot afford to contribute to the reliance on foreign oil that makes us prisoners to foreign potentates who do not have our best interests in mind.

We cannot afford to fritter away the hard-earned carbon-reducing benefit of transit; even as we recognize that each of us must act collectively to stem the climate crisis.

We cannot allow the New York Region's transit to disintegrate before our eyes after 25 years of reinvestment, renewal, revival, and economic growth.

We have only one choice. But it requires sacrifice, something that does not come easy after years of near-continuous prosperity, partially built on borrowing. Before us today is a proposal to overcome the MTA’s financial gap. It is put forward by a gubernatorial commission headed by Richard Ravitch, who had such a vital part in formulating and securing the funds for the plan that revived the Region’s transit system a generation ago.

The new Ravitch plan is a sensible one. It spreads the burden among transit users and drivers, the latter who gain so much when others use transit. It asks all businesses in the MTA region to pay a small levy on their payroll. These businesses would not thrive and might not even exist if it weren’t for the transit system and the economic life it gives to the City and Region. The Ravitch Commission rejects the disastrous system of borrow now, pay-during-the-next-person’s-term-of-office, akin to putting your groceries on a credit card. Almost one in five dollars of the MTA’s operating budget is expected to be devoted to paying for that short-sighted policy, foisted on the MTA by the previous administration. (By the way, did we mention that RPA consistently told them this was not a good idea and that the chickens would come home to roost?).

The alternative to the Ravitch proposal is to allow the disintegration of the transit system through a thousand cuts (of service) and huge fare increases and a spiral of neglect of the MTA’s vast and vital infrastructure. This is really no choice at all.

The fate of the transit system is now in the hands of Governor David Patterson and the New York State legislature. The good news is that most of them have begun to understand this crisis is real. The bad news is that they are subject to pressures from those businesses and drivers who don’t yet get it, and enacting any type of tax or revenue increase is politically painful.

Some may question why a legislator north (or east) of the City should care. The answer is simple: if New York City’s and the Region’s transit system suffers, so does the City and Region’s economy. And ultimately the state’s economy depends on the thriving economy downstate.


If we share the pain, we reap the gain.
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RailBus63
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The payroll-based 'mobility tax' seems to be the most fair plan and makes the most sense, IMO.
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the word 'sacrifice' is key here as it will be in every aspect of our lives during the present economic crises this country faces!

I too favor the Ravitch plan as being a most equitable long term solution to the problem.

The loss of viable mass transit in the New York metro area would be devastating not only to the region but would impact the business of the entire nation.

They have to remember how important The Big Apple is in the scheme of things!

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY
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HwyHaulier




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Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:
...I too favor the Ravitch plan as being a most equitable long term solution to the problem...

Mr Linsky -

Some question whether the entire rationale of mobility tax is much too clever and perverse? It would be, after all, a tax
on what is widely deemed a basic human right of freedom of travel?

It is still a cross subsidy scheme, where in the vast number of cases, a particular mode used in an optimal and efficient
manner. Yet, if it is taxed, the funds diverted to promote the inefficient. Thus assuring even greater messes?

.....................Vern..................
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RailBus63
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The term 'mobility tax' in this case is just a name - the plan proposes a payroll tax would then be used to fund and improve transportation throughout the region, thus improving mobility options for area residents. In my opinion, this is a good start and is preferable to looking for additional state funding from Albany. I believe that the state government should provide a base level of transportation funding to all counties and locally-based levies should be used to raise funds for major metro areas which have much greater needs.

That said, one wonders if yet another tax will discourage employers and their workers from locating in the metro area. As it is, some financial companies have been moving various back-office functions of the city since September 11th as they seek to reduce the risk of a catastrophic shutdown in the event of another attack. I think it will be a long time before Wall Street returns to its previous levels of employment, and there is a significant likelihood that it will not.

My 2 cents worth.

Jim
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HwyHaulier




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Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim -
RailBus63 wrote:
...That said, one wonders if yet another tax will discourage employers and their workers from locating in the metro area...

Much like the shrewd and seasoned attorney, I doubt if you would have asked without knowing the answer beforehand. The response,
of course, is "Yes"! Simply raises the cost nut of a proposed (or existing) employer...
Quote:
...As it is, some financial companies have been moving various back-office functions of the city since September 11th as they seek to reduce the risk of a catastrophic shutdown in the event of another attack. I think it will be a long time before Wall Street returns to its previous levels of employment, and there is a significant likelihood that it will not...

The troubling matter here is the increasingly rapid development of computer and internet applications. So very much of precisely this kind
of work can readily be located at off shore sites. It has already happened in many sectors...

In a collateral point, the entire question of what is a fair fare for transit? In the era of private operations (many large, share holder owned
entities), the fares resulted from a formal system of trade offs. For the most part, it delivered fair value for fair value paid, and were at
compensatory levels for the carriers. (Notably, New York fares were often unduly low, but (at times) could be expected to deliver net
surpluses. Recall the surprising offer, now decades back, when O. Roy Chalk offered to buy many New York systems, in his belief it could run
profitably.)

Compare, in the more commonplace environment of recent decades, fares are unduly low, and do not reflect inflation adjusted parity with
classic levels. The various agencies appear to have much reluctance to adjust fares accordingly, and so the demands for public funding.
Better to consider fixing that first, before demands for other, global taxes?

Finally, New York issues are unique to the area. One trouble being: Let's suppose methods are implemented, and unique solutions for
New York problems. This sets up precedent and past practice solutions. The eager, in other areas, and with nothing at all in common with
New York, will surely attempt similar fixes, no matter whether an inappropriate "patch". Like, Great Falls, MT needs a mobility tax!...

...................Vern..............
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shortlineMCI



Age: 54
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless I missed something along the way, nowhere did I see anywhere that maybe the size of the management should be cut. Maybe remaining management should take a pay cut? Or maybe THEY should make some kind of a sacrifice? How many people in management make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year?

Now there's a novel idea.


Last edited by shortlineMCI on Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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Dieseljim
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:07 am    Post subject: Why Should Western New York continue to Subsidize NYC Reply with quote

Why should Western New York, an already depressed part of the state continue to subsidize New York City when we have inadquate rural transit systems that do not even connect with one another or with nearby city systems and it seems that the life continues to be sucked out of Western New York in the form of hgher property taxes with a diminishing rate of returns in terms of the type of transit systems that connect rural areas with the cities either directly or with intercity bus companies. If WNY does not become another Northern Ireland I would be very much surprised. WNY has every cause to go that route because of the way this end of the state gets screwed over time and time again by downstate interests and some of the transit systems at this end of the state are going to suffer for it.
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HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dieseljim -

Rural systems are an entirely separate discussion. It is very difficult to make much of a favorable case, as the services (for the most part)
are inefficient solutions, as they address little real need. Some of the best discussions of the issues are in publications of Minneapolis FRB...

Your quite valid complaints about Western New York always getting the short end on treatment by Albany, now decades old, objective
statements of documented grievances. I am quite familiar, and on board with all of it, as I had arrived from out of the area, and worked in
Buffalo area for several years in the early 1960s decade. To get along, newcomers were encouraged to learn and endorse the case for the
Niagara Frontier. Even back then, all one had to do was travel the area, and keep one's eyes and ears open.

It was painfully apparent that State policies were practically and effectively punitive to much of anything positive ever happening. Used
to be, WNY was a Wonderland, if one happened to be in the trade of working with local shippers, and securing dependable sources of
cargo shipments from there to points throughout the US and worldwide. The ensuing developments, and declines of WNY area very tragic...

.................Vern.............
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RailBus63
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:58 am    Post subject: Re: Why Should Western New York continue to Subsidize NYC Reply with quote

Dieseljim wrote:
Why should Western New York, an already depressed part of the state continue to subsidize New York City when we have inadquate rural transit systems that do not even connect with one another or with nearby city systems and it seems that the life continues to be sucked out of Western New York in the form of hgher property taxes with a diminishing rate of returns in terms of the type of transit systems that connect rural areas with the cities either directly or with intercity bus companies.


The mobility tax in question would only be assessed in the MTA district, so Upstate taxpayers are not being asked to bail out downstate transit this time.

In regards to rural transit systems, I have to agree with Vern. Most of these are inherently inefficient due to the low number of users and the sprawling area that must be covered. Even when a group of systems are coordinated by a bigger agency such as Rochester's RGRTA, there is very little interconnectivity between the systems. The answer is probably to find more local funding to expand these services where practical, but it is unrealistic to expect that small rural systems will suddenly start running direct to Buffalo or Syracuse.

I would also like to see New York State do more to help fund a more comprehensive intrastate bus system that could better connect small cities with larger metro areas and improve transportation options. California has done a great job in recent years in developing a network of in-state Amtrak services and connecting bus routes, and while I don't think any new passenger rail corridors are practical right now in this state, more could be done to develop the Buffalo/Niagara Falls to New York 'Empire Service' and offer connecting buses to meet the trains.

Jim D.
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HwyHaulier




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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:30 am    Post subject: Re: Why Should Western New York continue to Subsidize NYC Reply with quote

RailBus63 wrote:
...The mobility tax in question would only be assessed in the MTA district, so Upstate taxpayers are not being asked to bail out downstate transit this time...

Jim D. -

A refreshing approach! I can think of examples where a local agency is always with the off the walls ideas on how to spend money,
yet expects the entire State to carry the funding load. But, mobility tax in the Five Boros? Still another tax? I guess they have a basic
right to pursue suicidal urges...

BTW. Recently, we get to hear a planning buzz phrase of transportation options. Never mind it is little more than exercise of needless
luxury. There is no Constitutional requirement for options. Fits in, if the proponent believes all budgets are awash with money to be
spent...

..................Vern..............
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Dieseljim
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:28 am    Post subject: As for an Intrastate Bus System-NJ Transit would be a model Reply with quote

As for an intrastate bus system for New York State to complement the Amtrak service, I would use NJ Transit Bus as a model for such a system. I am surprised that Western New York has not turned into another Northern Ireland. With the way Albany screws us over, I would say we have plenty of cause to form our version of the IRA. Send the message Give WNY a fair shake or else.
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RailBus63
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People in New York State don't revolt because, all things considered, this state is still very generous when it comes to social spending. That is a major reason why our taxes are so high.
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shortlineMCI



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RailBus63 wrote:
People in New York State don't revolt because, all things considered, this state is still very generous when it comes to social spending. That is a major reason why our taxes are so high.


Agreed. I think we have a damaging situation here in NYC where half of the population are now foreigners and the other half who are Americans are feckless. A Management that is too huge and gets paid huge salaries.

What went so wrong so badly and how was this allowed to happen. Whatever the case, we are stuck here now and the damage done is irreversable.
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