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NYC/London congestive pricing (Eyewitness News)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 30756
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2025 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interior comparisons...........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?5678

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?100198

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?5875

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["PULLMAN-STANDARD"]
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 59
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
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Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2025 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
W.B.:

For the life of me, I cannot understand why, with the NTTs assigned to the BMT/IND, why that old style of seating was not incorporated into the new units.

Though, recall, from the "R-27s"/"R-30s" through to the "R-42s", the "back-to-the-wall" seating was utilized.

I am sure, that "Es-Eye-Are" commuters are now indeed missing the more comfortable seating of the now-retired "Fordy-Fours"......

"NYO"

["SIR"]

To your last point, it wouldn't surprise me if that were to be the case.

But apparently, passenger comfort is dead last (if at all) amongst the list of priorities of what passes for a "brain trust" at the "Em-Tee-Yay."
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2025 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

Speaking of variations (regarding how rapid transit rolling stock was once equipped)........

Beginning with the "R-17s", look at the variations in metal standee straps, in equipment built by "ACF" and"ST. LOUIS"

In London's "tube" stock, many decades ago, there were some cars that did have metal straps, but most straps were basically the same as those used in wooden El cars; for many, many years, the "straps" resembled long cords with what looked like an old-time gearshift knob to grab onto *the trams also were likewise furnished.

Interestingly, on the "Aitch & Em", only the original C;ass "A" cars had leather straps; all other classes had overhead bars (think "Triplex").

Too, recall it was not until later years that the 12s/14s/15s had small "grab handles" installed (Your's Truly) remembers these well)

Some of the "Black" cars were also furnished likewise.............

'NYO"

["LET 'EM OFF FOIST! WATCH YER STEP!"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2025 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note straps used to accomodate the standing passengers who once rode restored "Dangerfield" #4727, many years back.........

www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?155306

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["FLXIBLE"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2025 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interior of one of the NYCTM's "Kramdens"........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?156947

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["GENERAL MOTORS"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2025 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interior of NYCTM Fishbowl #2151

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?155948

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["ta"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2025 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interior of NYCTM's "Jetson" #100............

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?155938

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["New York City Transit Authority"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2025 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting...........

Except for most of its wooden "El" cars, the BMT clearly preferred overhead bars for standees instead of straps.

Most (but not all) Standards ("Broadway Battleships") used overhead bars, as did the "Triplex" and "Multis".

The "C"-types were also furnished with overhead bars.........

"NYO"

["BMT LINES"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2025 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fitting............

Rolling stock with straps "foist" operated in the subways on the original IRT in 1904; quite fitting, then, that the "Era Of The Straphanger" ended with the retirement of the iconic IRT "Redboids" in 2003........

"NYO"

["7 TIMES SQUARE"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2025 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also.....

When the joint service "MP-52"/"K"-class cars entered service on "the tubes" in 1958, they featured overhead bars for standees, unlike the subway cars also being built by St. Louis, all of which featured straps (see photos posted earlier)........

"NYO"

["HUDSON TERM"]


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Wed Nov 26, 2025 12:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2025 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thinking now of just how many of the postwar NYCTA/MTA buses (including Kramdens", Fishbowls, and "Dangerfields") were equipped with small-sized "straps" (see photo links previously posted)........

"NYO"

["New York City Transit Authority"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2025 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also..........

Regarding the NYCTA buses which were equipped with straps: were these pieces of hardware included in the "package" when these buses were purchased, or were these an "extra cost" option?

"NYO"

["ta"]

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MaBSTOA 15



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2025 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The straps were extra cost options. But since NYCTA & MABSTOA bought large numbers am sure the cost was incorporated in the final price per bus.

Not all old look buses either GM, Mack, or Twins had the straps.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2025 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaBSTOA 15 wrote:
The straps were extra cost options. But since NYCTA & MABSTOA bought large numbers am sure the cost was incorporated in the final price per bus.

Not all old look buses either GM, Mack, or Twins had the straps.


MaBSTOA 15:

Appreciate, as always, the historical info!

I see I was thinking more or less on the same wavelength; the straps WERE an "extra cost" option.

With PSNJ, I recall their transits (Old Looks and Fishbowls) having straps that were not "spring loaded"; simply metal "hoops" that were hung from an overhead bar, and, also could slide along the bar.

Your's Truly can remember some NHBL buses having these straps, but, by no means, were all of the buses so equipped.......

'NYO"

["1 JOURNAL SQUARE"]

["5 NEW YORK"]
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2025 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
MaBSTOA 15 wrote:
The straps were extra cost options. But since NYCTA & MABSTOA bought large numbers am sure the cost was incorporated in the final price per bus.

Not all old look buses either GM, Mack, or Twins had the straps.


MaBSTOA 15:

Appreciate, as always, the historical info!

I see I was thinking more or less on the same wavelength; the straps WERE an "extra cost" option.

With PSNJ, I recall their transits (Old Looks and Fishbowls) having straps that were not "spring loaded"; simply metal "hoops" that were hung from an overhead bar, and, also could slide along the bar.

Your's Truly can remember some NHBL buses having these straps, but, by no means, were all of the buses so equipped.......

'NYO"

["1 JOURNAL SQUARE"]

["5 NEW YORK"]

The way side center windows on buses were built also seemed optional (notice on the side opposite from the passenger entrance/exits, the window opposite from the exit differed between the first TA Fishbowls of 1959-60 and on the FACL and ST lot of 1960 which was basically an emergency exit door).
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