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Trade-in values for used buses

 
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DE60LF




Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 142
Location: Albuquerque, NM

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:02 pm    Post subject: Trade-in values for used buses Reply with quote

I was thinking about this, and would like to know about how trade-in values for used buses are determined. I know that AC Transit is trading in their NABI buses in exchange for Van Hools. Since the Van Hools are made in Belgium, they cannot recieve any federal funding by the FTA for their purchase due to Buy America laws, as the buses are assembled overseas. Because of this, AC Transit is trading in their existing NABI fleet for more Van Hools.

I have also heard rumors today that ABQ RIDE was looking to trade in their SLF200s for additional New Flyer hybrids, however, was told that the resale value for the SLF200 CNG is only about $50,000. I personally would like to see ABQ RIDE trade in their SLF200s for either New Flyer DE40LFRs or DE35LFRs, as the SLF200 CNGs are slow, unreliable buses.

So, does anyone know what determines trade-in values?
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DE60LF,

I wasn't aware that bus manufacturers even entertained trade-ins although anything is possible.

I would have to imagine that the value of a used bus would be dependent upon how old or young it is (the latter, of course, adding to its worth), what equipment it has, how many miles on the speedometer and, of most importance, its general condition,

Transit buses are generally either sold to other operators or to brokers and, in some cases, auctioned off with the opening bid based upon the price of the tires (I don't quite understand that myself, but apparently that's how it works!).

Some of Green Bus Line's original 'New Look' 400's went through a broker and wound up 2,000 miles away in Denver just as an example.

BTW; I was under the impression that while NABI parts are manufactured in Hungary, they are assembled here in the U.S. which would make them eligible for federal funding under Buy America Laws.

I do stand corrected on any of the within information.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY
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The Port of Authority




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 118
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:41 am    Post subject: Re: Trade-in values for used buses Reply with quote

DE60LF wrote:
I was thinking about this, and would like to know about how trade-in values for used buses are determined. I know that AC Transit is trading in their NABI buses in exchange for Van Hools. Since the Van Hools are made in Belgium, they cannot recieve any federal funding by the FTA for their purchase due to Buy America laws, as the buses are assembled overseas. Because of this, AC Transit is trading in their existing NABI fleet for more Van Hools.


They're really putting all of their proverbial eggs in the Van Hool basket. I hope they know what they're doing.
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DE60LF




Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 142
Location: Albuquerque, NM

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:
DE60LF,

BTW; I was under the impression that while NABI parts are manufactured in Hungary, they are assembled here in the U.S. which would make them eligible for federal funding under Buy America Laws.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY


Yes, that is correct. The same goes for New Flyer, where the bus shells are made in Winnipeg, while final assembly is done in either Crookston or St. Cloud, Minnesota. Van Hool buses, on the other hand, are completely assembled in Belgium and are imported to the US and Canada via ABC Transit.
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ripta42
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Age: 44
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
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Location: Pawtucket, RI / Woburn, MA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:
I wasn't aware that bus manufacturers even entertained trade-ins although anything is possible.


As DE60LF said, Van Hools are marketed in the US exclusively by ABC Companies, which also deals in used coaches. It's kind of like buying a used Chrysler from your neighborhood Buick dealer, except no other dealer in the country sells new Buicks.
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busdude




Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At Auction, after 12+ years a bus will usuall fetch 2-2500 dollars. pretty much fully depreciated in value. Other than being a transit bus, theres not much use for them other than scrap or to donate its drive train to another bus. For newer buses and trade in value, i would presume if you figure 12 years is fully depricated, you start figureing the msrp than divide that by 12 for a rough cost than you valuate each individual coach and see how much less it may be worth (mileage, condition, etc) until you have a final price. Used Transit buses seem to be one of the few vehicles where many times the scrap value of the caoch will be more than its price as a useful vehicle.
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was just thinking out loud;

I wonder how the present economic situation will affect transit operators what with almost certain cut backs in government subsidies just around the corner?

The problem, as I see it, is that today's buses have a life expectancy of no more than 12 years (except for what's left of the RTS's and Classics which could go on forever!).

This is a far cry from the 25+ years that we used to get out of pretty much anything built before the nineties!

To compound the felony (so to speak) I would say that at least twenty five to thirty percent of the rolling stock nationwide is approaching the end of the line (not a pun!).

So, where do we go from here?

Do you rebuild? buy cheaper? I don't know - but it's sure going to be interesting to see what happens.

This may be an opportunity for some entrepreneur to build us a better mouse trap!

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY
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DE60LF




Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 142
Location: Albuquerque, NM

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:
The problem, as I see it, is that today's buses have a life expectancy of no more than 12 years (except for what's left of the RTS's and Classics which could go on forever!).



Well, ABQ RIDE's Neoplan AN440A CNG buses are reaching their 12 year mark this year, and are still running strong. In fact, they still perform better than the Thomas SLF200s and break down less often. I think they could continue to operate at least five more years.
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RailBus63
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 1063

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Numerous transit authorities are still operating Orion and New Flyer buses built in the early 1990's. Mississauga Transit in Ontario only retired their 1989 and 1990 Orion V's in 2006, and one bus (#8923) is still running. With proper maintenance and a midlife overhaul, I don't see why today's buses can't make it to at least 15 or 16 years.
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DE60LF




Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 142
Location: Albuquerque, NM

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RailBus63 wrote:
Numerous transit authorities are still operating Orion and New Flyer buses built in the early 1990's. Mississauga Transit in Ontario only retired their 1989 and 1990 Orion V's in 2006, and one bus (#8923) is still running. With proper maintenance and a midlife overhaul, I don't see why today's buses can't make it to at least 15 or 16 years.


I have heard a few rumors that ABQ RIDE is looking into converting their Neoplans to ULSD. At times, ULSD can be as clean as, if not cleaner, than CNG. This is one of the main reasons why sales of natrual gas buses is declining in North America. ULSD will also provide superior fuel economy compared to CNG, resulting in lower operating costs.

I have actually heard that ABQ RIDE's Neoplans have to be refueled daily, while the New Flyer DE40LFRs can go several days without being refueled. As for the Thomas SLF200s, since they use a smaller engine (Cummins B-Gas Plus vs. the Cummins L10G engines on the Neoplans), I'd imagine they probably don't have to be refueled as often as the Neoplans.

However, even better would be to convert the Neoplans to diesel-electric hybrids like the DE40LFRs. However, this would be very difficult and costly.
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Dieseljim
Deceased



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 548
Location: Perry, NY

PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:04 am    Post subject: Why Not Buy Up Canada's Remaining Fishbowls and Reman. Them Reply with quote

Why not buy up Canada's remaining "fishbowls' remanufacture them to like new condition so that Transit properties can get like new buses for a fraction of the cost. The same goes for any operable Flxibles of this ilk and operable GM and Mack "old looks" as well. Add in the RTS's and Classics and you could have a nice bunch of resalable buses to authorities that need new buses, but cannot afford them.
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