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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23613 Location: NEW JOISEY
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2716 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 9:25 am Post subject: |
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Had to look inside the site for the actual link:
https://www.smartsign.com/blog/short-history-new-york-city-signage/
For me, copying and pasting is the trick . . .
Funny, though, that they used a photo of a section of a 1990's remodeling job to highlight the Vickers/"Eye-En-Dee" era . . . never mind that there were no pics actually taken in the 1967-79 era showing any of the eight colors they used before the reworking. |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23613 Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23613 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 9:56 am Post subject: |
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At some locations, the "Aitch & Em" substituted the word "TUNNELS" for "tubes", as seen here at the 14th Street station.
This sign indeed echoes the "Eye-En-Dee"................
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?81135
["HUDSON RAPID TUBES"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23613 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 10:02 am Post subject: |
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A sharp contrast in signage indeed at the 6th Avenue IND line's station at 34th Street, back in 2010!
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?112917
(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
["INDEPENDENT SUBWAY SYSTEM"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23613 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 11:34 am Post subject: |
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W.B.:
This is an article (w/multiple sections) I think will be of interest*........
https://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/London_Underground_in_Electric_Railway_Journal_1915-1931
*(In one section, "EXTENDING BY TUNNELING", there are photos of workmen measuring platforms, tunnel construction, etc; I know this is something with which you are greatly knowledgeable)
There is also a very rare photo in the section on extending the "Bakerloo" line, showing "gate stock" and platform ramps which accommodated variations in station platform heights.
["KENNINGTON"] |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2716 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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About the 1926 car modernization (or "modernisation") article, the picture of one of them looked like it could have been an influence on the design of the "Bee-Em-Tee's" last car before the city takeover, "Bluebirds." |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23613 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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W.B. Fishbowl wrote: | About the 1926 car modernization (or "modernisation") article, the picture of one of them looked like it could have been an influence on the design of the "Bee-Em-Tee's" last car before the city takeover, "Bluebirds." |
W.B.:
If you want to see a London "Underground" car with a "Bee-Em-Tee"-profile, check out the photo on this page.............
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_Q_Stock (like the BMT, the "Underground" also rostered a "Q"-class!)
The end profile, IMHO, is reminiscent of the "D"-Type Triplex, but without the end sign boxes.......... |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23613 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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W.B. Fishbowl wrote: | About the 1926 car modernization (or "modernisation") article, the picture of one of them looked like it could have been an influence on the design of the "Bee-Em-Tee's" last car before the city takeover, "Bluebirds." |
W.B.:
As I had mentioned earlier, the "1938 Stock" (aka "Red Trains") were the first deep-level "tube" stock to have all electrical gear under the floors.
Prior to the introduction of these trains, "Standard stock" utilized power cars ("DM"="Driving Motor") where the forward portion of the car body was used for the electrical gear.
A number of these tough-looking, growling beasts from a long-ago era ran in revenue service well into the 1960's..........
See:
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?23612
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?23623
(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
["MOVE WHERE? EDGEWARE!" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23613 Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23613 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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W.B.:
See also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_infrastructure
*Note photo (on right) showing the tremendous difference in the dimensions between a "sub-surface" train and a "deep level" tube train.
The former would be more "in sync" with American rapid transit rolling stock.
All the sections here are quite interesting, especially the ones on "ELECTRIFICATION"/"VENTILATION & COOLING".............. |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2716 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | W.B.:
See also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_infrastructure
*Note photo (on right) showing the tremendous difference in the dimensions between a "sub-surface" train and a "deep level" tube train.
The former would be more "in sync" with American rapid transit rolling stock.
All the sections here are quite interesting, especially the ones on "ELECTRIFICATION"/"VENTILATION & COOLING".............. |
Yeah, the "deep tube" trains in their front seem like a Max Fleischer cartoon version of the BMT "Bluebirds." The front of the "sub-surface" type looks like a cross (in its shape if not specifics) between the "Green Hornet" and the "Zephyr." |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23613 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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W.B.:
Max Fleischer studios indeed spoofed "Eye-Are-Tee" rolling stock in several 1930s "Betty Boop" cartoons; also, you never knew when an "Eye-Are-Tee" kiosk was going to pop up!
Funny, how only the "Aitch & Em" here in the States was the only rapid transit system to be dubbed "the tubes", outside of London.
Back in the RFW days, it was pretty dang obvious, peering out the window, WHY the "Aitch & Em" was dubbed "the TUBES".
In Glasgow, interestingly, the underground there is referred to as a "SUBWAY" (In Great Britain, a "subway" generally denotes an underground tunnel/passageway, and NOT a a rapid transit system operating underground)
I often wonder now if the "ogee" roofs of the H&M "B" through "J" cars inspired, at least in part, the IRT's 1938 WF cars (recall, also, that type of roof was later used on the "R-10/R-12/14"s)............
"NYO"
["ALL TRAINS TO NEW JERSEY"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23613 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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Subway miniatures, then and now..........
Oddly enough, not even the undisputed king of mechanical trains/toys, "MARX", ever offered a subway set (there WAS a postwar toy that was a bit odd, based on the famed "HONEYMOON EXPRESS", that had a diesel train circling the city, under a plastic dome! WHY "MARX" didn't make this a TRUE "subway" toy is beyond me)
Oddly, in more recent years, a company re-issuing old tin "MARX" trains (electric) offered two rapid transit sets (both using the same tooling); one set represented the "R-15s", while the other represented the "See-Tee-Yay's" iconic 6000s.
Recall, "MARX" trains were QUITE cheap, back in the day; these new rapid transit sets were QUITE pricey, to say the least.
Of course, there are also the highly-detail "O" gauge models by MTH, representing a number of pre- and postwar "Noo Yawk" cars (I have "Lo-V's" and a set of "R-17s")
However, these, also, are far from inexpensive, and cost a pretty penny (OK, they ARE nice-looking, authentic replicas, but still..............)
In England, pre-WW1, tinplate "DISTRICT" line sets were offered (these were electric).
Prior to WW2, "HORNBY" and "BASSETT-LOWKE" offered "OO" ("HO") sets of 1938 stock trains.
In the early 1950s, "EVEREADY" had a set out (plastic "OO" scale set) that ran on batteries and was made of plastic (again, based on the 1938 stock)
As there were no other tracks offered to expand these sets, sales were dismal (needless to say, these sets are MORE than rare today)
Then, here in the States, recall, back in the 1960s, "SILVER LEAF RAPID TRANSIT MODELS"* (Brooklyn) who offered handsome "HO" scale replicas of the "Lo-V" and the "Standards".
As a kid, I was BEYOND mesmerized by the custom-painted "Lo-V" displayed in the window of "HOBBY MART" (PABT) circa-1965...........I STILL dream about it today!
In Japan, from the 50s through the 70s, many tin replicas (of many sizes) were made in Japan, replicated the various types of Tokyo Subway rolling stock in use at that time (also, JNR MU's were replicated in great profusion, as tin friction and battery toys, back then)
I have quite a few of these (some over 2" in length!) in my collection today!
"NYO"
*Around 1964/65, "RAILROAD MODEL CRAFSTMAN" had an excellent feature (a VERY rare type of article, for sure!) on rapid transit modeling.
Color cover photo showed a train of "Bee-Em-Tee" gate cars climbing up the ramp ar Fresh Pond Road! |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2716 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Thu May 23, 2024 7:07 am Post subject: |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | I often wonder now if the "ogee" roofs of the H&M "B" through "J" cars inspired, at least in part, the IRT's 1938 WF cars (recall, also, that type of roof was later used on the "R-10/R-12/14"s)............
"NYO"
["ALL TRAINS TO NEW JERSEY"] |
Believe it - and also the "Artens" (and the prototype built from the ruins of an R-7A). Must've gotten the inspiration after building the replacement "Aitch-and-Em" 33d Street terminus. |
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