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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22675 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:33 pm Post subject: Old Look rear window variations |
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Fellows: This is my first post here, and I look forward to bieng among fellow bus buffs! I have long been interested in the rear window variations of a/c-equipped Old Look suburbans; the older ones had a boxy a/c unit with a long duct on the roof (and the usual twin rear windows), whereas the later ones often had a large, once-piece rear window with a narrow divider, along with a more modern a/c unit. I recall seeing these on the suburbans and semi-surburbans on the Orange & Black and PSNJ back in the 60s and early 70s. Were these newer rear windows factory installed, or were these later "in house" updates? Thanks again for any input! John |
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Mr. Linsky BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 5071 Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
As part of the unofficial welcoming committee here at BusTalkIII, let me take this opportunity say hello and glad to have you aboard. We look very much forward to both your friendship and valued contributions.
Regarding your questions on GM Air Conditioners; while some operators did install 'after market' underfloor Thermo-King units in their 5108's (suburbans of transit heritage), GM was working on some of the first roof mounted Frigidaire units.
In the first experiment, a TDH 5103 (ser# 001), which was originally used to test air suspension and redesignated as TDH 5105 EXP 305 became one of two transits (the other being a TDH 5106) to be fitted with air conditioning.
Unlike peviously developed GM 'PD' units which derived power from seperate small gasoline engines within the aft compartment, the 5105/6 comperssors took power from their main engines with the condenser assemblies in a rather awkward structure at the rear end of the roof while maintaining the standard transit back windows.
However, in the 'production' models these units evolved to smaller and neater roof housings with a sleeker windshield like panoramic rear window.
These systems were short lived with the advent of the 'New Look' transits and suburbans of 1959 that featured far less consipuous exterior components.
Pictured below is the aforementioned TDH 5106 which was eventually sold to Fifth Avenue Coach Company of New York.
Photo borrowed for educational purposes only.
Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22675 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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Mr. Linsky: Many thanks for the kind welcome, and also, for all of the fascinating info you have posted about the a/c'd Old Looks.....truly VERY interesting! Speaking of "in house" updates of Old Look suburbans, the most unusual (and most interesting) that I have ever seen, was back around 1973/74, at the old Public Service terminal in Newark. Parked outside as it loaded, was a "silversided" Old Look suburban (a/c'd) BUT with FISHBOWL/4104-style side windows!!! Man, what a BEAUTIFUL-looking coach!! And I didn't have my camera with me, of course!! Obviously, this was a "one-of-a-kind" in-house experiment, as I never saw another like it. Man, if I could have only gotten ONE picture!! Oh, well!! Thanks again for your info and that BEAUTIFUL picture of a truly classic coach! The dapper driver also tells us that this was indeed the "golden era" of buses! John |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22675 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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Here is a pic of ex-NYCTA #3100; its massive a/c unit certainly gives the bus the impression of bieng "jet propelled"! Happily, this classic escaped the torch years ago! http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?15907 |
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HwyHaulier
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 932 Location: Harford County, MD
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:14 am Post subject: Re: Old Look rear window variations |
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Mr. Linsky -
Oh, torment me with memories of the TDH-5106 coaches, why don't ya'? Icing on the cake is the (temporarily identified) FACO 3200!
A long lost, beautiful, beautiful coach! I always enjoyed the contemporaries, in Express service on key PSNJ routes! Man, oh, man! They were magnificent. Part of the charm, too, is they were an operator's dream...
The old maxim is, "You don't know what you've lost until it's gone!" Amen. Hardly anything in present day catalogs, and on the streets, that come anywhere near close to these old everyday standards...
.........................Vern................ |
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Mr. Linsky BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 5071 Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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HwyHaulier,
This is precisely the reason why the GM 'New Looks' actually got off to a poor start in late 1959.
Many operators took the position that nothing could be done to improve upon something that was already perfect.
That being the entire 'Old Look' line of the fifties.
I don't believe that anything on six wheels ever did or ever will be more gorgeous than the GM TDH 5106 (well, maybe the PD 4106 - but, that's in a different category).
These people new how to build a bus and, with a little tender loving care, most of them could still be running today!
And, they were just as pretty to drive - I should know because I drove them!
BTW; the 4512 pictured below wasn't a bad looker either!
Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22675 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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Mr. Linsky: That 4512 truly epitomizes the sleek, stylish look of 1950s GMC transit coaches.....MAN, that is one BEAUTIFUL coach!! The Old Looks were the most commonplace of all buses in my area of NJ when I was a kid back in the 60s......they truly had a style all thier own. I've seen enough pictures of vintage Green Line buses to know that they were not only sharp-looking coaches, but also, reflected a good deal of old-time company pride. GL's 4507's and 5104's weren't slackers either! The Old Look easily had to be one of the most reliable....and long-lived of all the transit coaches. Up here, the very last of them weren't retired until mid-1986.....and probably would STILL be soldiering on if they were still around.....man, do I miss 'em!! John
Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22675 Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22675 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Dieseljim Deceased
Joined: 26 Jun 2008 Posts: 548 Location: Perry, NY
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Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:23 am Post subject: Variation on Old Look Rear Windows, etc. |
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Those Old Looks that were equipped with air conditioning sometimes had one piece rear windows as in the case of those of DC Transit, Inc. of Washington, DC or many of the TDM5108s operated by Public Service of New Jersey. Another unusual item I noticed on some of the New York City old looks, was the substitution of double armed pantograph type wipers instead of the standard arcing type wiper arms of other Old looks. This was particulrly true on the batches starting with the 7000 series numbers. |
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Mr. Linsky BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 5071 Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.
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Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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D. J.,
The air conditioned 'Old Looks' with the smart looking 'vista' rear windows under the condenser housing were the first 'Frigidaire' production jobs from GM and many New Jersey Public Service TDM 5106's came so equipped.
The TDM 5108's were not factory equipped and some operators eventually installed after market fully self contained Thermo-King units underfloor - these buses had no exterior rear condensers and used the traditional Old Look rear window configuration.
Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY |
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