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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23326 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 11:13 am Post subject: |
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W.B;
Interesting notes on the roll signs; I, being from "Joisey", had no idea these signs were incorrect.
The following is from George W. Hilton's "THE STATEN FERRY" (1964):
".........the Ferry's Whitehall Street terminal may also be reached by Broadway and First Avenue buses marked 'South Ferry'..........."
For tourists and day trippers, Mr. Hilton also mentions several SI bus routes:
#1 (Sailor's Snug Harbor); recall, the SIRT's trains also called here on the Arlington line, until 1953.
#107 (Staten Island Zoo)
#108/#113 Richmondtown (this was then then under re-construction; the old wooden SIRT New Dorp station house resides there today)
This historic structure was moved to the site, after the grade crossing was eliminated, and the ROW placed below grade.
Recall, also, that when this neat little book was published, Staten Island was dominated by "Shermans" and "Pattons".
An overhead view of the St. George terminal shows fifteen buses.
The 69th St. boats were also highlighted (this always-busy line would be shut down in late 1964), as well as the SIRT, then a subsidiary of the B&O.
Ahhh, do I remember those days well.........
"NYO"
["SIRT"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23326 Location: NEW JOISEY
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2595 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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- On bus #6730 in the first pic, notice 'MADISON AV VIA 135 ST' on the side. That side sign was made in 1965 for use on that lot of batwinged Fishbowls - months before the one-way conversions of 5th and Madison Avenues (those that correctly indicated '5th & MADISON VIA 135 ST' were produced in late 1966 as the A/C batwing Fishbowls were being produced). After both the ex-NYCO 2 and ex-FACCo 2 (modified to 2A for the next eight years) had their routes changed due to this, it wouldn't have been uncommon, on those '65 batwings, to show "2 MADISON AVE VIA 116 ST" whether or not the bus was the Lenox branch (ex-NYCO 2) or the Seventh Avenue branch (2A, ex-FACCo 2), on northbound runs; and '2 5th & 7th AVENUES' on southbound runs.
Oh, and the 1 only went up to 147th Street and Lenox Avenue after April 30, 1967. This thus was an add-on (or cut-in, or insert, or whatever) on the front roll sign. And notice the graffiti near the rear. There is a video on YouTube about how the graffiti pandemic affected Manhattan buses as much as the subways at that time.
- On bus #5310 in the third pic, the small side sign listed 'AVE AMERICAS' - apparently Transign didn't have enough room or a small font that was narrow enough to wedge in an 'OF' with one letter positioned at a higher spot than the other, as on the huge side signs of the "batwings."
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23326 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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W.B.:
IMHO, algebra is CHILD'S PLAY indeed, when compared to your "in-depth" complex descriptions of roll signs, fonts, route changes, etc....man, talk about INTRICATE!!
I cannot help but think, when viewing these nostalgic old photos, of the thousands of roller curtains simply either tossed into dumpsters, or, simply left in place when the buses themselves were scrapped.
So much history destroyed forever...........
"NYO"
["OA"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23326 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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MAN demo "slinky" at South Ferry, 1974.
Note, behind the bus, the toll booths for vehicles boarding the SI Ferry (the ferry has not carried vehicles since 2001, and none of the present boats can carry autos/trucks)..........
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?156495
(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
["MAN"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23326 Location: NEW JOISEY
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2595 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | W.B.:
IMHO, algebra is CHILD'S PLAY indeed, when compared to your "in-depth" complex descriptions of roll signs, fonts, route changes, etc....man, talk about INTRICATE!!
I cannot help but think, when viewing these nostalgic old photos, of the thousands of roller curtains simply either tossed into dumpsters, or, simply left in place when the buses themselves were scrapped.
So much history destroyed forever...........
"NYO"
["OA"] |
If there was even a hint of preservation-mindedness "back then," especially of " 'stoa" Fishbowl front- or side roll signs, particularly Manhattan's, there'd be far more of those you'd see on eBay as opposed to now. As it is, predominantly "Tee-Yay" roll signs of the outer boroughs dominate.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23326 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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W.B.:
Too, if there were more of a "preservationist's mind", back then, at least ONE of the distinctive "front sign that sticks out" Old Looks would have been set aside for preservation.
Think about, what IS left to remind us that ST and "stoa" even existed??
"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23326 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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Personally, I would have loved to have seen TWO of these highly-distinctive buses* preserved; one restored to "ST" livery, and the other for "stoa"............alas, my good friends, only in a perfect world...........
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153792
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153794
(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
*(Imagine, during their twilight years, if at least some of these buses ended up being transferred to Staten Island?)
["2648"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23326 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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St. George, 1971.
Note the a/c unit of Fishbowl #8899.
I would guess that this bus was one of the few a/c-equipped Fishbowls on Staten Island, at that time...........
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154935
(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
["R-107"]
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2595 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | St. George, 1971.
Note the a/c unit of Fishbowl #8899.
I would guess that this bus was one of the few a/c-equipped Fishbowls on Staten Island, at that time...........
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154935
(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
["R-107"] |
I think I said that route is today's S48. But what A/C Fishbowls were running on Staten Island's roads at that juncture would have been the late 1968 order of T6H-5305A's, followed by some from the 1971 order.
I saw a 1978 photo of #8850 from the '68 order running on the M15 outside South Ferry. Here it is, below (as it relates to the "Island of Staten"):
(As a side note, unlike the 1964 or '65 "Dangerfields," these '68 Fishbowls did have some modicum of respect later on in its service.)
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![ta-8850_m15_1978_s-ferry_format.jpg](files/ta_8850_m15_1978_s_ferry_format_224.jpg)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23326 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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W.B.:
NICE photo....sure brings back great memories of the days I traveled to "The Island of Staten" every Saturday, almost 40 years back! (the "BARBERI" and the "NEWHOUSE" were then the newest boats in the SI fleet)
Surprising that Staten Island had even a few a/c buses way back then, given that, for many years, it was, for all practicle purposes, the "forgotten borough" (aka the "stepchild borough")
*(Funny, too, with the nycsubway.org bus photos, there are only a very few photos of "Shermans" running on Staten Island, and none at all showing the formidable, hard-working "Pattons" operating on "R" routes......another example of "no respect"?)
"NYO"
["TA"]
Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sat Oct 14, 2023 7:57 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23326 Location: NEW JOISEY
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2595 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | *(Funny, too, with the nycsubway.org bus photos, there are only a very few photos of "Shermans" running on Staten Island, and none at all showing the formidable, hard-working "Pattons" operating on "R" routes......another example of "no respect"?) |
As the "Pattons" running in SI were phased out in 1968-69 . . . well . . .
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23326 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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W.B. Fishbowl wrote: | NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | *(Funny, too, with the nycsubway.org bus photos, there are only a very few photos of "Shermans" running on Staten Island, and none at all showing the formidable, hard-working "Pattons" operating on "R" routes......another example of "no respect"?) |
As the "Pattons" running in SI were phased out in 1968-69 . . . well . . . ![Shrug](images/smiles/dontknow.gif) |
W.B.:
Too, regarding "Patton" photos, there are none at nysubway.org showing them in their twilight years (Staten island included) operating either in Manhattan or Brooklyn.
There is ONE later-era color photo in "NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT BUSES" (Greller) showing "Patton"#6034 at Stillwell Avenue, with a train of blue-door "Brightliners" up above..............
"NYO"
["6034"]
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