BusTalk

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

MaBSTOA 15:

These are OUTSTANDING photos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've never seen any of these before (and they certainly did NOT come from the nycsubway.org bus photo archive!)

On a somewhat related note, it was not uncommon for PS to "swap" buses between divisions; you might, for example, see a buson your line numbered for a series which was normally assigned to a "foreign" division.

I know I've read that when PS was starting to take delivery of their first Fishbowl transits (TDH-5302's) in mid-1960, some Old Looks were then sent to other garages, to replace older models.

Experimental diesel-electric ASV D900, after having been stripped of its electrical gear, operated as an ESSEX Division bus until 1960, when it was transferred to the HUDSON Division, and assigned to the GREENVILLE (Jersey City) garage,until it was retired, circa-1970.

Getting back to "Noo Yawk" buses........

By 1970, with the MACKS (aka "Pattons") already gone, and the remaining Old Look (aka "Sherman") fleet rapidly dwindling, I'm wondering, with so many new buses arriving, if any of the remaining Old Looks found themselves assigned to different garages, running in boroughs they had not operated in previously.

I know that, after the MACKS on Staten Island were retired in 1969, they were replaced by the TDH-5106's (Old Looks) from other boroughs as they were replaced by new buses.

Again, THANK YOU for posting these EXCELLENT old photos here to share with us (these were REAL buses, for certain!)

"NYO"

["New York City Transit Authority"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

This is now reminding me of the early NJT era; with the exception of Old Looks, it seemed as though just about ANY type of bus could be found running on the busy "RIVER ROAD EXPRESS", an ex-ORANGE & BLACK rush hour line.

A number of classic "inherited" buses could be ridden (and enjoyed!) for several years; in addition to the "normal" Fishbowls, I recall 4104's, 4106's, "Bison", and, believe it or not, an early-model MC-8, with the slanted window design, which was eliminated in the later-model "8's" .

Back in 1985, I remember, a number of times, riding on an ex-PS Fishbowl suburban on the #21* (today's much-truncated #181)....and this was certainly a VERY heavy "transit" line that needed transit models with rear exits!

Ahhh, but it was so much fun while it all lasted.......(!!)

"NYO"

*(Interestingly, the #21 was, until 1947, operated with ASV's)

["#21 WEST NEW YORK""]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

From "NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT BUSES"(Martin)...........

".........the spring of 1963 saw the arrival of new GM TDH-5303's; 255 for MABSTOA and 350 for the Transit Authority. Until then, the fledgling MABSTOA was faced with many growing pains......"

"........like the BoT in 1947, MABSTOA inherited worn-out equipment. During the 1962 strike Fifth Avenue Coach transferred 110 "good" buses to the Westchester Street Transportation Co., a subsidiary not affected by the strike........."

"NYO"

["5 5th AVE. RIVERSIDE DRIVE"]

[W.B. Fishbowl]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

W.B.:

I've long found it interesting that, it took some 20-odd years for "Shermans" and "Pattons" to be deemed "junk" by their operators, while the 'Borough Bombers" were "junkers" from about the first time they hit the streets in "Noo Yawk"!

Even more ironic that (at least here in "Joisey", the "new and improved" METRO "B" (technically, a "Bomber" that was indeed quite an improvement, over their VERY slightly-older bretheren) lasted so many years in service, with little or new issues.

NTJ's were in service for many years (I knew these workhorses well!) until replaced by the NABI coaches, quite a few years ago (BLAND and BORING as all get-out, which I have no love for, whatsoever)

The few times I rode them (last time I rode on ANY type of bus was well over 7 years ago), I HATED them: uncomfortable seating, claustrophobic interiors, and rough riding.

Give me a "Sherman", "Patton", Fishbowl, or a "Dangerfield" anyday.........

"NYO"]

["B1 PARAMUS"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Talk about "longevity".........here, in 1981 we see first-generation "Tee-Yay" Fishbowl #2142 still "making the rounds" (yep, they sure don't build 'em like THIS anymore!)

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153269

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["B54"]

[MaBSTOA 15]

Speaking of renumbering, here is the list of re-numbered 1969 Flxibles including the fishbowls that were renumbered after their sojourn to Blitz.

As well as a list of TA and OA buses from 1959 till the RTS-04.

Search for the "bombers" that were meant for Ave. B.

Unforyunately, the list does not include the ex-FaCCo and Surface fishbowls.

[MaBSTOA 15]

NYCTA Today.. actually 1969. This came from the August 1969 issue of Motor Coach Age.

I vividly remember, during 1968-1970, 9000 series "Shermans" working the B58 Ridgewood line out of the Fresh Pond Depot. Yet they are not listed here.

(Btw, I never liked the 9000 series TDH-5106... they seem to break with tradition... sliding instead of lifting windows and over size windshield wipers... not normal)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

MaBSTOA 15:

OUTSTANDING items (as usual); great input (as well as personal memories!)

You mentioned sliding windows; recall, now, the "BINGHAM" Macks (C-50-DT, 5200-5599, 1950/1951)

Not only did these distinctive buses have sliding side windows, they also were equipped with sliding standee and rear windows.

Interestingly enough (remember, this was during the Cold War-era) these buses could be converted into ambulances (thankfully, they were never used in this capacity)

The "BINGHAM" Macks (according to "NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT SYSTEM BUS & TROLLEY COACH FLEET" (Greller) these buses also replaced a number of B&QT trolley lines.............

"NYO"

["M1 MADISON-CHAMBERS"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

"BINGHAM" Macks on the job..........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?156969

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?156978

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["BoT"]

[MaBSTOA 15]

BoT TDH-5101, number 4899 had sliding standee and rear windshield windows. But had regular lift type passenger windows.

The TDH-5101 arrived in 1948. The Bingham Macks arrived in 1950-1951. I wonder if 4899 was a prototype for the Macks?

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

MaBSTOA 15:

It would seem that the "BINGHAM" Macks were the "basic prototype" for the "modern" MACKS.

Pre-Bingham, you had the C-45GT's (1948), and the C-45DT's (1949)

After the BINGHAM Macks entered service, only new GM's were added to fleet for the next several years, and, it was not until 1956 that the "Tee-Yay" received its last MACKS, the C-49's (6000-6317)

It also would have been quite interesting had the 'Tee-Yay" invested in "New Look" MACKS.

How odd that the very last order of "Shermans" (the 9000 series 5106's) were not only the last such buses purchased, but also, the only Old Looks to be equipped with sliding windows...............

"NYO"

["B24"]

[frankie]

[quote

How odd that the very last order of "Shermans" (the 9000 series 5106's) were not only the last such buses purchased, but also, the only Old Looks to be equipped with sliding windows...............
[/quote]

Also the only GM old looks (along with the 7000 series) to be equipped with special ordered Cummins diesel engines. My Dad worked on them in ENY. They all had distinctive throaty sounds when accelerating.

[frankie]

[quote

How odd that the very last order of "Shermans" (the 9000 series 5106's) were not only the last such buses purchased, but also, the only Old Looks to be equipped with sliding windows...............
[/quote]

Also the only GM old looks (along with the 7000 series) to be equipped with special ordered Cummins diesel engines. My Dad worked on them in ENY. They all had distinctive throaty sounds when accelerating.

[MaBSTOA 15]

A couple of other GM operators/agencies also had sliding windows rather than the lift type.

The photos I’ve seen showing this feature were of TDH-4512.

Will search to see if I can find a photo or two.