BusTalk Forum Index BusTalk
A Community Discussing Buses and Bus Operations Worldwide!
 
 BusTalk MainBusTalk Main FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups BusTalk GalleriesBusTalk Galleries   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

[NJ] NABI Contract for New Jersey?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BusTalk Forum Index -> Surface Transit - Eastern United States
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
blazer




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 3
Location: Bronx, NY

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:58 am    Post subject: Re: NABI contract for New Jersey? Reply with quote

According to my bad math, even with all that from NABI, MTS can still built the Metro-B replacements, still lost out on the rest
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KCRam3500




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 32
Location: Lake Hopatcong NJ

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:38 pm    Post subject: Re: NABI contract for New Jersey? Reply with quote

Quote:
Authorization to contract (No. 06-085) with North American Bus Industries Inc. to purchase 1145 transit and suburban buses at a cost not to exceed $409,871,962 plus five percent for contingencies. Delivery will be 200 buses per year over a six year period replacing buses that have exceeded their 12 year useful life. All buses have wheelchair lifts and kneeling feature.


This certainly explains why NABI won. No one else at this point (besides possibly Orion) would be able or willing to build standard floor buses into the next decade AND back them up for the life of the bus with parts and support. As much as I love the RTS, Millennium has no track record to pull off an order of that size. It's also good to see them return to the Public Service style of annual delivery in reasonable batches... it's clear that the large bulk orders can cost you in other ways.

So it looks like we'll have:
- 289 2007 MTS RTS
- 200 2008 NABI 416
...and annual through
- 200 2013 NABI 416

This will give NJT one of the newest large fleets in the country... the oldest buses would be the CNG MCIs, and I wouldn't be surprised to see them replaced soon - they're underpowered for the task, and NJT would probably love to go with more hybrid MCIs to replace them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RailBus63
Moderator



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 1063

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:51 pm    Post subject: Re: NABI contract for New Jersey? Reply with quote

Does the Millennium contract have an out clause allowing NJT to cancel it if those buses are as bad as we've heard they are?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KCRam3500




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 32
Location: Lake Hopatcong NJ

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:31 pm    Post subject: Re: NABI contract for New Jersey? Reply with quote

Railbus63 wrote:
Does the Millennium contract have an out clause allowing NJT to cancel it if those buses are as bad as we've heard they are?


Any contract can be canceled if there are severe quality issues, and out of warranty, there could simply be a situation like MTA and Flxible, where legal action would force the manufacturer to take them.

The next speculation would be, what will NJT number this fleet of NABIs? I would imagine there will be some 35-footers in the order to cover the 80 short RTSes, plus there are 92 Metro-D suburbans. So I would guess the following:
- 2801-2880 for the shorts
- 3001-3973 for 40-foot transits
- 4501-4592 for suburbans
This way, the 4100-series MTS transits aren't too out of sequence. And of course, is contingent on NJT replacing the fleet 1 for 1 in terns of body type. If they opt for more suburbans, that obviously changes the breakdown..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Q65A



Age: 61
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 1692
Location: Central NJ

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:08 pm    Post subject: Re: NABI contract for New Jersey? Reply with quote

Great info, everyone; thanks!
Do you think that NABI ever would win an NJT order for artics?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KCRam3500




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 32
Location: Lake Hopatcong NJ

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:45 am    Post subject: Re: NABI contract for New Jersey? Reply with quote

ripta42 wrote:
Great info, everyone; thanks!
Do you think that NABI ever would win an NJT order for artics?


NJT won't need them until 2016 unless Neoplan parts dry up (they're trying to sell NeoPart in their BK proceedings to avoid that possibility, similar to how Flx sold their parts business when they went under). If artics are needed before then, NABI is the only manufacturer of standard-floor artics right now, and the 436 would certainly be a plus thanks to the parts commonality.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mr. Harlem Line




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:35 pm    Post subject: Re: NABI contract for New Jersey? Reply with quote

It makes me wonder why they are replacing the Novas so soon.

Aren't they in great condition?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Port of Authority




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 118
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:56 pm    Post subject: Re: NABI contract for New Jersey? Reply with quote

Mr. Harlem Line wrote:
It makes me wonder why they are replacing the Novas so soon.

Aren't they in great condition?


The oldest of the Novas will be reaching 12 years of age very soon.


Last edited by The Port of Authority on Thu May 03, 2007 8:28 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
KCRam3500




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 32
Location: Lake Hopatcong NJ

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:11 pm    Post subject: Re: NABI contract for New Jersey? Reply with quote

The Port of Authority wrote:

The oldest of the Novas will be reaching 12 years of age very soon.


Yep, later this year.

The Metro-Ds are already 12 and the first NABIs will likely be 2008 models (built in late 07/early 08). The Nova As won't get replaced until the 2009 and 2010 batches when those RTSes will be 14, then when the 2011 NABIs are delivered, the Nova Bs will begin hitting their 12th birthday (the first were delivered in June 1999). NJT timed it very well.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
_SEPTA8119




Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 0

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:47 pm    Post subject: Re: NABI contract for New Jersey? Reply with quote

Railbus63 wrote:
Has the Millennium contract officially been cancelled by NJT?


Not that I'm aware of. The Millennium contract is for the replacement of the Metro-B fleet. The NABI contract is for the replacement of the Metro-D and Nova fleets over the next 6 years. These are two separate contracts.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KCRam3500




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 32
Location: Lake Hopatcong NJ

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:22 am    Post subject: Re: NABI contract for New Jersey? Reply with quote

One thing I just realized...

NJT has put themselves in position to now take delivery of small batches of buses every year for quite some time.

Start with the 7 year replacement of all the transits and suburbans (MTS and NABI). That will be finished in 2013. In 2014, the first of the MCI D-series diesels will be 12. Another spread-out order could be placed then for say 300 coaches per year for 5 years. At that contract's completion in 2018, the last 53 D4500s will be 12 years old. In 2019, guess what? The Millenniums will be 12 and the cycle can start again. The beauty of it is, they can choose to put each annual buy for bid, or they can make it a long-term contract like the NABI proposal.

The Neoplan AN340/345 are gone. The New Flyer D40S/D45S are gone. Prevost has stated they are not interested in the commuter coach market. Wonder who will challenge MCI for that next big order?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
_W8hou




Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 0

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:18 am    Post subject: Re: NABI contract for New Jersey? Reply with quote

KCRam3500 wrote:
One thing I just realized...

NJT has put themselves in position to now take delivery of small batches of buses every year for quite some time.

Start with the 7 year replacement of all the transits and suburbans (MTS and NABI). That will be finished in 2013. In 2014, the first of the MCI D-series diesels will be 12. Another spread-out order could be placed then for say 300 coaches per year for 5 years. At that contract's completion in 2018, the last 53 D4500s will be 12 years old. In 2019, guess what? The Millenniums will be 12 and the cycle can start again. The beauty of it is, they can choose to put each annual buy for bid, or they can make it a long-term contract like the NABI proposal.


You do realize that the MCI OTR buses can last more then 12 years (17-25 years at most) unless they had to retired due to mileage or NJ Tranist policy to replace buses and other issues. So, I don't see those OTR buses replaced by around 2016-2020 period.

Quote:
The Neoplan AN340/345 are gone. The New Flyer D40S/D45S are gone. Prevost has stated they are not interested in the commuter coach market. Wonder who will challenge MCI for that next big order?


I can think of only 2-3 companies Van Hool, Mercedes Benz/Serta or Orion?, Blue Bird (Yeah right) coach buses
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
_SEPTA8119




Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 0

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:49 am    Post subject: Re: NABI contract for New Jersey? Reply with quote

W8hou wrote:
You do realize that the MCI OTR buses can last more then 12 years (17-25 years at most) unless they had to retired due to mileage or NJ Tranist policy to replace buses and other issues. So, I don't see those OTR buses replaced by around 2016-2020 period.


IIRC, it's actually FTA policy/recommendations as opposed to official NJT policy. Although, a lot of the MC-9As did stay on the road for 15-20 years (a lot of them were on the further end of that scale as I recall).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KCRam3500




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 32
Location: Lake Hopatcong NJ

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:17 pm    Post subject: Re: NABI contract for New Jersey? Reply with quote

W8hou wrote:
You do realize that the MCI OTR buses can last more then 12 years (17-25 years at most) unless they had to retired due to mileage or NJ Tranist policy to replace buses and other issues. So, I don't see those OTR buses replaced by around 2016-2020 period.


Ahhh, then you're forgetting when the MCI D-series demos were first delivered. 8011 and 8060 were sent to NJT in 1996, when the newest of the MC-9As (1984) had just turned 12. The reason it took another 6 years was strictly $$ - FTA didn't have the appropriation until Congress passed the 2001 transportation bill.

Yes, MCIs last that long... but if the original operator keeps them that long, they have no resale value. The 9As had an original purchase price of $157,600 when the order was placed in 1982. When they were sold, they were getting just $8000. The Metro Bs will bring in even less. Getting rid of them at the 12-year mark means there's still some market value left. The FTA does have allowances for trade-in or auction value that can be used to offset the new bus purchase (if you sell FTA-funded equipment without buying new replacements, the proceeds from the sale are supposed to be returned to Washington).

The other issue is parts. It is the industry standard to guarantee OEM parts availability for 15 years from date of delivery.You don't want to keep buses past the parts guarantee, because no one will buy the used ones if no one will build the parts to repair them down the road. Because of the Millennium order, there will be many factory RTS parts available for years to come - this makes Nova RTSes more valuable on the used market. In contrast, Flxible's last deliveries will hit that 15 year mark in 2010, meaning no one (not even MCI who bought the Flx parts rights) is obligated to make parts after that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KCRam3500




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 32
Location: Lake Hopatcong NJ

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:10 pm    Post subject: Re: NABI contract for New Jersey? Reply with quote

NJ Transit NABI Order To Include Closed Circuit Cameras

some portions... and the ATU is on board with this as well:

NEWARK, NJ — At its regularly scheduled meeting tomorrow, the NJ TRANSIT Board of Directors is expected to authorize the purchase of 1,145 transit and suburban-style buses equipped with closed-circuit camera systems to enhance customer and employee security.

If approved, the purchase would renew the state’s bus fleet over a period of six years and mark the first time that NJ TRANSIT vehicles were delivered with closed-circuit cameras as standard equipment.

...

"The safety and security of our bus operators and customers is our highest priority, and we have worked closely with NJ TRANSIT to advance this issue," said Vito Forlenza, Chairman of the Amalgamated Transit Union. "The inclusion of the closed-circuit camera technology in NJ TRANSIT’s fleet would mean a big step forward in enhancing onboard safety."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BusTalk Forum Index -> Surface Transit - Eastern United States All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group