BusTalk

[Q65A]

The Fourth Generation of GM New Looks debuted in 1972, but there were no major external appearance changes to herald the arrival of these new Fishbowls. This would be the final generation of New Looks, and also the longest running model series. Beginning with their launch in 1972, production of Fourth Generation New Looks finally would cease 14 years later, with the delivery of the final GMD Fishbowls from Canada in 1986. For this round, model numbers were tweaked slightly: the “A” suffix (signifying an air-conditioned coach) was supplemented by an “N” suffix (indicating a non-air-conditioned coach). The alphanumeric prefix arrangement introduced with the Third Generation carried over into the Fourth Generation. In logical fashion, the 40-foot transits were called T6/8H-5307 and T6/8H-5308 (102” width and 96” width, respectively). A 102” wide 35-foot transit was not produced, probably due to a lack of projected sales for such a vehicle, and only the T6H-4523 was announced. Suburban coaches were called S6H/M-4504 and S8H/M-5304. The former was only sold with a Detroit Diesel 6V-71N while the latter was available only with an 8V-71N. The S6H/M-4504 quickly proved to be a poor seller and was discontinued in 1973. Fourth Generation New Looks had the same 4-lamp tail gate arrangement that began appearing on Third Generation Fishbowls since sometime in 1970. The Environmental Improvement Package (EIP) was specified on most of these units. A significant exception was NYBS, who preferred street-level exhausts; NYBS units had flat, louvered stainless steel panels fitted in place of the standard EIP components. The newest Fishbowls had roof-mounted emergency escape hatches, air throttles, and numerous other subtle design improvements. Hydraulic transmission controls were operated either by floor-mounted lever-type selectors or by an electrical toggle switch mounted on the left side of the front instrument panel. Later GMD Fishbowls offered optional dash-mounted transmission selector levers. Located just to the right of the B/O's right knee, this selector location was reminiscent of the automatic transmission lever location on GM Old Looks. Anti-lock brakes (pursuant to FMVSS 121) also were fitted to some of these units in 1975, but this rudimentary ABS equipment proved to be unreliable in service and was eliminated from later production. The last Fishbowls built at the Pontiac (MI) plant were delivered in March 1977, after which all production was then dedicated to GM’s radically new ADB, the RTS-II. Bus operators that still wanted to purchase New Looks after 3/77 had to acquire them from the Diesel Division of GM (GMD), located at London, Ontario. GMD production at London was supplemented in 1974 by a new plant located at St. Laurent, Quebec . All GMD production later was relocated to a new facility at St. Eustache, Quebec . This plant was acquired from GM by MCI in 1987. It was sold in 1993 to Nova Bus, who still produces their LFS low-floor transit and suburban coaches at this facility. Neither NYCTA nor MaBSTOA purchased any 5307’s or 5308’s, but they did purchase a large number of Fourth Generation GM New Looks; this subject will be covered in a later installment. Not surprisingly, the PBL’s continued to purchase Fishbowls, and most of these operators would continue to do so long after GM had introduced the RTS-II. Several PBL’s would purchase Fourth Generation New Looks built by GMD, underscoring the great loyalty these operators had both to the Fishbowl and to GM. In the years after World War II, Green Bus Lines was very nearly “all GM all the time”, and they maintained this status by purchasing 42 T6H-5307A’s from 1972 to 1976: 161-170 (February 1972), 171-190 (October 1974) and 301-312 (December 1976). GM converted its U.S. production to RTS-II’s in 1977. Although GBL was an early adopter of the RTS among NYC operators, they went to GMD for their final order of Fishbowls, buying 15 Canadian T8H-5307A’s: GBL 350-364 were built in 1979. These units lasted well into the ADB era. Fellow Cooper properties Triboro Coach Corp. and Jamaica Buses Inc. also followed GBL’s lead, albeit on a smaller scale. TCC bought 32 T6H-5307A’s in 2 groups: 741-760 in October 1974 and 601-612 in December 1976. They also bought 10 GMD T8H-5307A’s: 615-624 were built in 1979. JBI bought 10 T6H-5307A’s (951-960, built in September-October 1974) and 10 T8H-5307A’s (971-980 built in December 1976). Unlike GBL and TCC, all of JBI’s Fishbowls were built at Pontiac (MI). New York’s other PBL’s embraced the 96” wide T6/8H-5308A. New York Bus Service was as much a Fishbowl devotee as GBL, acquiring 61 T6H-5308A’s: 1308-1317 (April 1972), 1319-1328 (December 1972), 1336-1350 (March-April 1974), 1352-1366 (December 1974), 1368-1372 (December 1974), and 1374-1379 (August 1976). NYBS also bought 25 T8H-5308A’s from GMD: 1481-1495 (built December 1981) and 1496-1505 (built in January 1982). Curiously, NYBS did not buy any new Fourth Generation suburban Fishbowls, although they did pick up 9 used 1972-1975 S8M-5304A’s in 1981. Pioneer Bus Corp. (forerunner to Cooper-owned Command Bus Co.) bought 20 T6H-5308A’s for new services in Brooklyn: 7401-7415 (built in March 1974) and 7416-7420 (built in December 1974). In a major departure from historical practices, Avenue B & East Broadway Transit acquired their first new 40-foot GM New Looks: 621-625 (October 1971), 626-630 (July 1972) and 631-635 (January 1976). These units lasted until the MaBSTOA takeover of the little Manhattan PBL in 1980. Both Queens Transit Corp. and Steinway Transit Corp. went for the T8H-5308A in a big way. Large fleets of orange and cream Fourth Generation Fishbowls both from GM and GMD ran the streets of Queens, Manhattan (on express lines) and The Bronx (on the QBx1) well into the ADB era. QTC bought 70 T8H-5308A’s in 3 groups: 701-715 (May 1972), 716-745 (April-May 1975) and 746-770 (August 1976). Perhaps unimpressed with their experiences with a pair of early, slope-back RTS-II’s, QTC later went for 35 additional Fishbowls from GMD: 25 T8H-5307A’s (771-795) in 1979 and 10 T8H-5308A’s (853-862) in 1981. Sister company Steinway Transit bought 30 U.S.-built T8H-5308A’s: 601-605 (May 1972) and 606-630 (August 1976). The only PBL to purchase new Fourth Generation suburban Fishbowls was Liberty Lines, who picked up S8H-5304A’s 350-359 in September 1972. In a curious turn of events, NYCTA acquired 8 1973 S8H-5304A’s from MSBA in 1985. These units were assigned to Yukon Depot for service on the X17/X19 (allegedly to maintain better speeds than RTS-04’s on the N.J. Turnpike). Happily, MTAB has preserved 3 Fourth Generation Fishbowls in their historical bus fleet: TCC 621 and 623 (both 1979 GMD T8H-5307A’s) and NYBS 1502 (a 1982 GMD T8H-5308A). Appropriately, the former TCC units are kept at LaGuardia Depot, while the former NYBS unit is stored at Eastchester Depot. For the PBL’s, all future new bus purchases from GM would involve RTS-II’s.

[Mr. Linsky]

Pictured below is fleet # 5180 - a 1986 GMDD (Canadian Fishbowl) Model T8H 5307A (ser# G3500179) operating for Santa Monica Municipal Bus Lines (a/k/a 'The Big Blue Bus') and delivered to the company in April of that year.

While this bus is not of New York heritage, I think it deserves some recognition in this forum in that it was the last 'Fishbowl' ever made.

Photo by Alan Aron and borrowed from BusTalk Galleries.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

[Waynejay]

[Q65A]

Thanks WJ & Mr. L!!!
Thanks for the info about the NYBS units, WJ; you and the other BT members really know your buses!!!
Here's a Fishbowl trivia question: What long-standing, trademark Fishbowl feature is missing from that Santa Monica unit in the photo?

[Mr. Linsky]

Bob,

I think I got this one!

The funny shaped window just behind the front door.

I never noticed that before!

It might have been an added strengthening measure in addition to eliminating the most forward section of the standee window.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

[Q65A]

You're right on the money, Mr. L!
That little "half-teardrop" window normally installed just aft of the rear edge of the entrance door was a Fishbowl exclusive (Flx New Looks did not have a similar window).
I must say that Santa Monica Municipal Bus Line buses always look sharp (I had visited Santa Monica and LA way back in 1993, and I honestly can't remember if I had seen them in person at the time.)

[Waynejay]

I think that the GMDD fishbowls without the small window behind the front door were those with wheelchair lifts. I remember the newer GMDD fishbowls at Queens Transit (843-852) and Steinway Transit having lifts but not this small window near the front door. They did however have the window on the driver's side.