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Roosevelt Island Tram/QB Ry/Subways/Els
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 13658
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a rare color photo of a Dyre Avenue gate car train, taken in 1953.

Not long after this photo was snapped, the elderly gate cars were replaced by steel "Hi-V" subway cars, that were not that much their junior.

On an interesting note, look closely at the rooftop markers on the car closest to the camera; note that they are turned to an angled position.

This meant that they were no longer in use; the LIRR, in later years, also did likewise with the marker lights on their old MP-41 MU's, which were quite similar in appearance and dimension to the original 1904-era INTERBOROUGH subway cars.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?43570

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 13658
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A photo of two car train of elderly LIRR MP-41's, taken in the early 1950's; the marker lights are angled, if you look closely.....

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?67835

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 13658
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These veteran MP-41's have had their now-useless markers removed, and their old headlights replaced with those similar to the ones used on the MP-54's.

You can see that these cars were quite similar to the original INTERBOROUGH subway cars*; also, notice the IRT-style safety gates between cars......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?43392

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

*(I've seen a few interior photos of MP-41's; they were virtually identical to the early INTERBOROUGH subway cars and El stock of that era. They even had leather straps for standees!))


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 13658
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Compare these photos of early INTERBOROUGH "Hi-V's" (prior to the installation of center doors) with the photos of the LIRR's MP-41's*......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?138710

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?45182

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

*Until 1917, LIRR's MP-41's did, in fact, operate through to the BRT station at Chambers St. (through a joint BRT/LIRR agreement) but only after that section of the line was completed.

Prior to this, the MP-41's (and BRT trains) ran to (and reversed ends) at Delancey St. (Essex St.)

'NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 13658
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are two retired MP-41 LIRR cars awaiting scrapping; note these cars, at some prior date, have had their roof markers removed.

Also, note the steps and vestibule traps, which, of course, were not required on INTERBOROUGH cars.

As mentioned earlier, these cars were roughly the same dimensions as IRT cars, although they never ran on any INTERBOROUGH line.

It should also be noted that the MP-41's, originally, utilized a BRT-style coupler; they also utilized "convertible" third-rail shoes, allowing the cars to operate on both LIRR and BRT trackage.

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?43418

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:12 pm; edited 2 times in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 13658
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a very rare interior photo* of a LIRR MP-41; with the exception of the window shades, the interior layout is virtually identical to the INTERBOROUGH's original subway cars, as well as the ("Manhattan") elevated cars of that era.....

www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/odds_ends/MP41-MU-Car-Interior-c.1938.jpg

*Judging by the early-type light bulbs and car cards seen here, this view seems to have been taken when the car was new, or, at least, had been in service several years......
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Compare this interior photo of an IRT ("MANHATTAN") elevated car with the interior view of a LIRR MP-41, linked in the previous post.....

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?80394

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's an extensive, exhaustive historical page, with many maps, photos, and trackplans......

https://secretsofthesubway.com/2020/08/26/jz-bmt-jamaica-line/
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scroll through page to the "ATLANTIC AVENUE" heading.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/IRT_Brooklyn_Line#Atlantic_Avenue

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent page w/historical (and modern) photos, maps, trackplans, etc.; several excellent photos showing the long-sealed off LIRR/IRT connection at Atlantic Avenue......

www.arrts-arrchives.com/irtconn.html
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's an excellent and detailed history of the (now echoing, haunting, decrepit, and mostly closed-off) BMT Chambers St. station; there is a brief mention here of the joint LIRR/BRT operations.

This was a seasonal operation only, and was discontinued by 1917.

As I've mentioned earlier, LIRR MP-41's operated this short-lived service.......

www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/chambers.html
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's is another interesting item (w/photo galleries) detailing the cavernous, decrepit BMT Chambers St. station, which was also a terminal until 1931.

Many years ago, while "exploring" the lofty, decaying old station during my PM coffee break, I got to talking with an MTA worker, who told me, that, his great-grandmother, who who worked in a Municipal office, remembered there was a LIRR ticket office and a waiting area at Chambers St., prior to 1918.

I have heard others speculate about this, but have still not, to date, found any concrete evidence supporting this.

Regardless, this gloomy, decrepit old station has quite a fascinating and colorful history, a history that never ceases to intrigue me......

https://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/BMT_Nassau_Street-Jamaica_Line#Chambers_Street

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here, I think it appropriate to mention the infamous "Chrystie Street Connection" of 1967:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrystie_Street_Connection

With the opening of this connection, the separate identities of the BMT and the IND (and, also, the Rockaway Division)-vanished.

The first morning of the new connection, from all accounts, were chaotic. It seemed as though no two TA employees were following the same timetable.

Every trip that first day was a voyage into the unknown; not even motormen knew where any train would end up.

The newspapers of the day were chock-full of stories of misplaced (and confused!) passengers who found suddenly themselves on the Grand Concourse when they were trying to get out to Kew Gardens, and in Coney Island when they were trying to reach Harlem!

The new Chrystie Street Connection also, effectively, replaced the BMT's time-honored route numbers with IND-style letter designations (the roller curtains on the R-27's/R-30's began the ushering in of letter designations for BMT routes)

I am now reminded of a the old saying: "....leave well enough alone......"

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this classic pre-Chrystie scene, we see a train of "Brightliners" at Chambers Street; of particular interest is the large train indicator on the right.....

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?21966

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A timeless "staged" portrait (1966) of a train of "Brightliners" near Chambers St., signed for the long-forgotten "TT".........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?131146

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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