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Transport of New Jersey (TNJ) - BUS ROSTER?

 
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mcibus1




Joined: 19 Dec 2020
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:11 pm    Post subject: Transport of New Jersey (TNJ) - BUS ROSTER? Reply with quote

Hi,

Does anyone have a saved copy of the psct rosters linked here in many of the forums (now dead link)?

http://www.davemackey.com/psct/roster/1960-1973.html

I'm trying to ID a TNJ bus from a partial photo taken in the 1970s of a GMC “New Look” transit bus. It appears the fleet number might be something like J4472 but i'm not 100% certain of the last two digits as they were mostly cut off. There's definitely a four digit number starting with 44..
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 12175
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Transport of New Jersey (TNJ) - BUS ROSTER? Reply with quote

mcibus1 wrote:
Hi,

Does anyone have a saved copy of the psct rosters linked here in many of the forums (now dead link)?

http://www.davemackey.com/psct/roster/1960-1973.html

I'm trying to ID a TNJ bus from a partial photo taken in the 1970s of a GMC “New Look” transit bus. It appears the fleet number might be something like J4472 but i'm not 100% certain of the last two digits as they were mostly cut off. There's definitely a four digit number starting with 44..


Sadly, this link is no longer "live"; the Dave Mackey site was an incredible research tool for any and all PS historians/enthusiasts (I've lived my entire life in PS/TNJ territory)

I still berate myself for not printing out those PS rosters, back when the Mackey site was still with us.

PS's numbering system was unique; originally, all bus numbers had a letter prefix; just prior to TNJ, PS found it had used up all prefixes, so now, a letter suffix was added to new bus numbers (such as "375A")

Being a lifelong PS enthusiast, I still feel that there is a large void online that needs to be filled; I had hoped that, at some point, someone else might revived the site, but, to date, that has not happened......

"NYO"
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mcibus1




Joined: 19 Dec 2020
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, that explains it then. I actually sent him a PM over FB a few days ago. His profile had showed activity up through August 2020. I had no idea.

I noticed that there were a few websites that, although shut down, had survived by being hosted on some type of "caching" site, but I guess that never happened with his stuff.

I typically like to download information like that to local copies/PDF files for save keeping myself. I can't be the only one.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 12175
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are most welcome.

This reminds me of the old "STRAYHOUND" site, which has now been offline for at least a decade; this was the ULTIMATE site for GREYHOUND enthusiasts/historians; the site featured many rare photos and excellent documentation.

Sadly, this extensive site was never "picked up" by anyone else, and nothing on the web can match what this site once offered.

Ditto "Scenicruiser.com", which disappeared several years ago; again, another excellent site, with a tremendous amount of SCENICRUISER info, photos, etc.

Though I have one book on the history of PSNJ streetcars, I've yet, to date, have seen any books regarding PSNJ/TNJ bus operations.

Here again, this is a huge void that indeed needs to be filled; such a work would be invaluable for PS historians......

"NYO"
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GojiMet86



Age: 27
Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcibus1 wrote:
Thanks, that explains it then. I actually sent him a PM over FB a few days ago. His profile had showed activity up through August 2020. I had no idea.

I noticed that there were a few websites that, although shut down, had survived by being hosted on some type of "caching" site, but I guess that never happened with his stuff.

I typically like to download information like that to local copies/PDF files for save keeping myself. I can't be the only one.



Actually, the Wayback machine has the copy from 2013 and before. Just copy and paste the dead link:

https://web.archive.org/

https://web.archive.org/web/2013*/http://www.davemackey.com/psct/roster/1960-1973.html


Quote:
1960-1973: The "New Look" Era

General Motors revolutionized the bus industry with its so-called "new look" coaches of 1960. The buses featured more glass all the way around, including the driver's window. The edges and corners weren't quite as rounded, and overall it made for a better looking bus. PSCT wagered that people would want to ride this new bus and bought large batches of them every year from 1960 to 1971, including an unprecedented order for 250 buses in the first year. The buses continued to be classified as "transit" (300 and 400 series), "deluxe" (500 series), "parlor" (600 series) and "suburban" (700 series.) During this period, GM began producing a deck-and-a-half parlor coach. These buses, in the PD-490x series, began appearing in 1968 and were called "buffalo" buses because of their hump in the front. The year of manufacture continued to be denoted by the first letter of the bus number. Skipping O, Q and S, PSCT finally ran out of letters in 1968 and its 1969 buses had the letter trailing, such as 300A.

PSCT made its final used equipment acquisition, three PD-4104's dating from 1955 from Safeway Trails. The buses were numbered immediately after the parlors purchased in 1955 in the J600 series.

Though the bus company was renamed Transport Of New Jersey in 1971, the Public Service logo continued appearing on buses through 1974, including the last two PSCT buses ever, part of an order of Highway Products buses placed by the New Jersey Department Of Transportation.

P300-P429 GM TDH-5302 144-273 51 1960
P700-P819 GM SDM-5301 001-100, 200-219 49 1960
R300-R354 GM TDH-5302 353-407 51 1961
R500-R519 GM TDM-5302 001-020 49 1961 Only TDM-5302's produced
R700-R784 GM SDM-5301 377-461 49 1961 R750-R784 8V-71 engines
T300-T349 GM TDH-5302 628-677 51 1962
T700-T734 GM SDM-5301 543-577 49 1962
U300-U349 GM TDH-5304 129-178 51 1963
U500-U549 GM TDM-5304 001-050 49 1963
U700-U749 GM SDM-5302 146-195 49 1963 8V-71 engines
J639-J641 GM PD-4104 1427-1429 41 1955 (1963) ex Safeway Trails S594-S596
V600-V624 GM PD-4106 2524-2538, 2685-2694 41 1964 V600-V614 lavatories and seat 38
V700-V799 GM SDM-5302 330-429 49 1964 8V-71; V700-V709 skyview windows
W300-W359 GM TDH-5304 770-829 51 1965
W600-W609 GM PD-4106 3121-3130 41 1965 W605-W609 lavatories and seat 38
W700-W742 GM SDM-5302 495-534, 655-657 49 1965
X300-X389 GM TDH-5304 1177-1266 51 1966
X700-X764 GM SDM-5302 710-774 49 1966
Y300-Y329 GM TDH-5304 1719-1748 51 1967
Y600-Y604 GM PD-4107 880-884 38 1967 Lavatories
Y700-Y719 GM SDM-5302 1019-1038 49 1967 8V-71
Z300-Z404 GM T6H-5306 004-068, 107-146 51 1968
Z500-Z549 GM T6M-5306 001-050 49 1968
Z600-Z619 GM PD-4903 075-084, 012-016, 085-089 49 1968 Z610-Z619 lavatories and seat 46
300A-364A GM T6H-5306 208-272 51 1969
500A-539A GM T6M-5306A 001-040 49 1969
540A-549A GM T8H-5306A 003-012 49 1969 Park & Ride
550A-555A GM T6H-5306A 126-131 49 1969 Somerset Bus Co. 9653-9658
600A-604A GM PD-4903 311-315 49 1969
700A-714A GM S8M-5303A 178-192 49 1969
300B-374B GM T6H-5306 296-370 51 1970 371B retrofit AC
700B-734B GM S8M-5303A 242-276 49 1970
600C-609C GM PD-4905 292-301 46 1971 Lavatories
8457-8458 Highway Products TC-31 25438-25439 33 1973 Final new buses to carry the PSCT logo
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GojiMet86



Age: 27
Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcibus1 wrote:
Thanks, that explains it then. I actually sent him a PM over FB a few days ago. His profile had showed activity up through August 2020. I had no idea.

I noticed that there were a few websites that, although shut down, had survived by being hosted on some type of "caching" site, but I guess that never happened with his stuff.

I typically like to download information like that to local copies/PDF files for save keeping myself. I can't be the only one.


It looks like the only buses with a J at the beginning are:

J639-J641 --- GM PD-4104 -- 1427-1429 -- 41 -- 1955 (1963) *ex Safeway Trails S594-S596
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 12175
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would appear that PS began using prefixes with numbers early in the postwar period; two of the oldest pictures I've seen with this numbering format date to the late 1940's; both pictures are in "THE BUS WORLD ENCYCLOPEDIA OF BUSES".

One photo shows a 1948 PDA-4101 (B606), and another shows a 1948 TDM-4509 (single door Old Look w/standee windows)

This was was "C522", displaying the new postwar gray paint scheme.

In the early 1960's, PS began repainting the Old Look transits two-tone green, and the Old Look suburbans blue and white......

"NYO"
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mcibus1




Joined: 19 Dec 2020
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for finding the wayback website. I had no idea you could do this for any website. All his rosters for PSCT are there, so I went through each one and saved it offline into a Word document for safekeeping.

Since my bus is most likely a T6H-5306, I'm guessing the TNJ went through a renaming of sorts that isn't documented on his website. Otherwise, maybe it was a IBOA bus, with numbering for an independent or private owner who operated service for TNJ. Maybe that first character isn't even a J.



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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 12175
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another interesting facet to PSNJ bus operations seldom discussed is paint; sadly, there are few color photos of PS buses in their prewar schemes.

PSNJ, through the war, had different paint for intrastate and interstate buses (red/cream, orange/yellow)

The orange/yellow was more "in sync" to the streetcars; PS began to change over to the famous gray scheme sometime around 1946/1947.

PSNJ also repainted the newer model ASV's in the new postwar gray, even though ASV operation ended in 1948.......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 12175
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's an example of an ASV repainted into the new postwar gray scheme.

In the left background, you can also glimpse a PS deck-roof streetcar on the "#23 CENTRAL" subway-surface line; this would date this photo prior to December, 1947, when the "#23" was converted to buses.......

https://www.trolleybuses.net/psct/htm/usa_h_psct_yellow_9314.htm

(courtesy: trolleybuses.net)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 12175
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For comparison, here's an ASV wearing the old postwar paint worn through most of the ASV era (the "#49 UNION" replaced streetcars in September, 1935; interestingly, running time on this line was over two hours, making it PS's longest ASV run)

Running time on this line from "A" to "B" was over two hours; this was, in fact, the longest ASV line that PS operated........

https://www.trolleybuses.net/psct/htm/usa_h_psct_yellow_9134_newark_bv.htm

(courtesy: trolleybuses.net)


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 12175
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note the different paint schemes PS used on its intrastate and interstate buses, in this circa-1937 photo, showing the upper level of the long-since-demolished Public Service Terminal in Newark.

Through the decades, streetcars, ASV's, and buses served both the upper and lower levels of the Terminal, which was used by buses through the 1960's.

By this late date (circa-1937), only a few streetcar lines were still using the Terminal; all of these lines went to ASV and bus during 1938.......

https://www.trolleybuses.net/psct/htm/usa_h_psct_yellow_003.htm

(courtesy: trolleybuses.net)
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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 67
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We went down the wrong road thinking it was a “J” prefix.

The prefix “J” was assigned to a group of GM model TDH/TDM-4512, TDM-4515, and TDM-5108. As well as a three used PD-4104 from Safeway.

The new look/fishbowl in your photo is number 344A, one of sixty-five model T6H-5306A bought in 1969.

With this order, PSC began assigning fleet numbers with three digits and a suffix.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 12175
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

....earliest photo of a PSNJ Fishbowl that I have seen was taken in 1960, showing one of the new "first generation" transit models; the "P" prefix was used.

These buses soon became commonplace sights, especially on the ESSEX and HUDSON Divisions; the delivery of the "first generation" transits would have replaced the old "square window" Old Looks that were still in service.

In 1958, the last new GM's arrived sporting the classic PS gray; in the early/mid-60's, PS began repainting the Old Look transits in two-tone green, and the Old Look suburbans in blue and white.......

"NYO"
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