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Recalling the long-defunct intercity operators.....
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 1604
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
In "AMERICAN BUSES" (David Jacobs, 1985) there are a few photos of local and out-of-state "Bison" photos, including these companies:

SCENIC HAWKEYE STATES

LIBERTY

In the chapter dedicated to GREYHOUND, only MCI buses are represented; TRAILWAYS, all EAGLES.

By the late 1960's, EMPIRE STATE TRAILWAYS (WESTERN NEW YORK MOTOR LINES) was operating PD-4903's in through service between Buffalo and New York, with ADIRONDACK TRAILWAYS*.......

"NYO"

*Information from "TRAILWAYS BUSES" (William A. Luke)


NYO--
Just a couple of corrections....
It's Scenic Hawkeye Stages (not States)....they are currently still around, but dropped the 'Scenic' from their name...
https://hawkeyestages.com/
They no longer operate a line run, only charters and tours.

Empire Trailways (Western New York Motor Lines, legally), did pool their buses between Buffalo and New York City. But not with Adirondack, which never connected anywhere with them. They pooled with Short Line, changing driver's in Binghamton. It was strange indeed to see their 4903's at gate 101 (now 401) on the upper level of The Port! Very Happy
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 1604
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Up until the 1980's, Greyhound enjoyed a monopoly across parts of New York State. Adirondack competed with them between New York City and Albany and Schenectady, and up to Plattsburgh and Massena; while Empire Trailways competed with them between Buffalo, Rochester, Elmira and Binghamton.
The closest Adirondack got 'west' was Fonda, NY, and then went north to Gloversville. Later, Adirondack and Empire got rights to Syracuse, where they connected and started pooling.
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 1604
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Empire Trailways was almost "isolated" from the rest of the National Trailways Bus System...
Their sole connection was with Capitol Trailways of Pennsylvania, at Elmira. Capitol ran thru service with Empire. The thru service went Buffalo-Rochester-Elmira-Binghamton-Scranton-Wilkes Barre-Hazleton-Harrisburg-Baltimore or Washington. Some of the trips involved pooling with Safeway, if they went via Baltimore to Washington. And some trips pooled with Virginia Trailways, and Carolina Trailways, if they continued south to Norfolk or even down to Camp LeJeune, NC.

Later on Trailways presence in New York State was increased when Continental Trailways acquired Edwards Lakes-To-Sea System...
Edwards had the route between Sunbury, Williamsport, and Elmira, NY, where they still had the pool with Greyhound. Edwards also got deeper into western New York, on their Pittsburgh-Dubois-Salamanca-Buffalo route. On that route, they pooled with Empire, running a thru trip from Pittsburgh via Buffalo to Rochester.

When the new routes were awarded in the '80's, Empire also connected at Buffalo once a day with Lake Front Lines (dba Lake Front Trailways) to Cleveland. And with Peter Pan also expanding from Springfield to Albany, Trailways members now an "alphabet route" all the way from Boston to Cleveland and beyond....
Peter Pan Boston to Albany, Adirondack Albany to Syracuse, Empire Syracuse to Buffalo, Lake Front Buffalo to Cleveland, and connected to Continental (ABL) to the west...
Also as part of the new rights, they pooled New York City to Toronto with Gray Coach Lines at Buffalo, when Greyhound went out on a long strike.
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You would think that Short Line (Hudson Transit), which also pooled with Safeway Trails on a summer time Liberty to New York to Philadelphia service would have joined the National Trailways Bus System. But since most of Short Lines operations were commuter runs, I suppose they didn't really fit in...
Short Line was once an association that predates Trailways by several years, but was not nearly as 'cohesive', and only covered a relatively small region. Besides Hudson Transit, other Short Line members were Short Line of Rhode Island which became Bonanza, and Short Line of Pennsylvania which at one time was a New York to Washington operation, but in its last years, ran one trip a day from Philadelphia to Rehoboth Beach, DE.
There may have been some more Short Line members, but I cannot recall...
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of 'associations'...
A while back, some 'rocket scientist' at Greyhound got the 'bright idea' of trying to exploit the Greyhound name, by 'franchising' it out to independent carriers, for a hefty fee, of course. Just the opposite of what Greyhound's founders tried to unite them all into the parent corporation.

If I recall correctly, only a few carrier's took them up on that offer...
Great Southern Coaches, which ran between St. Louis and Memphis, and Delta which ran between Memphis and Greeneville, Ms. were two of them, IIRC, forgot the other's....

It did not last very long. Thankfully....
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 10791
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver:

Appreciate you alerting me to my typo regarding "HAWKEYE"; guess we're even now (recall "godden"?) Wink

Also, thanks for the correct information regarding ADIRONDACK; not being the "expert in the field" that you are, I have to take much at "face value", and assume that these people know more then I do.

I always greatly appreciate your taking the time to post so much "in depth" information, regarding past operations.......indeed, it makes for VERY interesting reading (as well as being correct!) Very Happy

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have in my collection, a 'VERMONT TRANSIT" timetable from 1978 (there's an MCI coach on the front, as well as dated 1960's-style graphics)

In the footnotes:

"THROUGH BUSES BETWEEN MONTREAL AND NEW YORK CITY ARE OPERATED NORTH OF BURLINGTON BY GREYHOUND LINES; BETWEEN BURLINGTON AND ALBANY BY VERMONT TRANSIT LINES, AND SOUTH OF ALBANY BY GREYHOUND LINES. THROUGH BUSES BETWEEN BURLINGTON AND NEW YORK CITY ARE OPERATED NORTH OF ALBANY BY VERMONT TRANSIT LINES, AND SOUTH OF ALBANY BY GREYHOUND LINES"

I'm wondering if drivers of the two companies were "swapped out" on these routes.......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver wrote:
Speaking of 'associations'...
A while back, some 'rocket scientist' at Greyhound got the 'bright idea' of trying to exploit the Greyhound name, by 'franchising' it out to independent carriers, for a hefty fee, of course. Just the opposite of what Greyhound's founders tried to unite them all into the parent corporation.

If I recall correctly, only a few carrier's took them up on that offer...
Great Southern Coaches, which ran between St. Louis and Memphis, and Delta which ran between Memphis and Greenville, Ms. were two of them, IIRC, forgot the other's....

It did not last very long. Thankfully....


traildriver:

Thought these links might be of interest.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyhound_Australia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyhound_UK
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 1604
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
I have in my collection, a 'VERMONT TRANSIT" timetable from 1978 (there's an MCI coach on the front, as well as dated 1960's-style graphics)

In the footnotes:

"THROUGH BUSES BETWEEN MONTREAL AND NEW YORK CITY ARE OPERATED NORTH OF BURLINGTON BY GREYHOUND LINES; BETWEEN BURLINGTON AND ALBANY BY VERMONT TRANSIT LINES, AND SOUTH OF ALBANY BY GREYHOUND LINES. THROUGH BUSES BETWEEN BURLINGTON AND NEW YORK CITY ARE OPERATED NORTH OF ALBANY BY VERMONT TRANSIT LINES, AND SOUTH OF ALBANY BY GREYHOUND LINES"

I'm wondering if drivers of the two companies were "swapped out" on these routes.......

"NYO"

They were definitely 'swapped out' at Albany (and also Springfield for New York to Burlington via that route).
I am not sure if they always changed at Burlington for the Montreal runs that went that way. There were also Boston-Burlington- Montreal pool runs.
Since Burlington to Montreal was a relatively short distance, I believe that Greyhound and VT had an arrangement where VT driver's would drive some of those trips, and to balance the pro rated miles, GL would drive over VT's run between Burlington and Boston, on summer Montreal to Boston expresses that didn't even stop at the Burlington division point.

GL had a similar arrangement with Carolina Trailways on the joint Washington-Annapolis- Eastern Shore pool.

The union's would carefully monitor the miles to be sure each companies driver's got the appropriate total miles due to them.
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
traildriver wrote:
Speaking of 'associations'...
A while back, some 'rocket scientist' at Greyhound got the 'bright idea' of trying to exploit the Greyhound name, by 'franchising' it out to independent carriers, for a hefty fee, of course. Just the opposite of what Greyhound's founders tried to unite them all into the parent corporation.

If I recall correctly, only a few carrier's took them up on that offer...
Great Southern Coaches, which ran between St. Louis and Memphis, and Delta which ran between Memphis and Greenville, Ms. were two of them, IIRC, forgot the other's....

It did not last very long. Thankfully....


traildriver:

Thought these links might be of interest.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyhound_Australia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyhound_UK


Greyhound Australia was not a part of that...they were not connected with Greyhound Lines in North America in any way,,,they just happened to use that name, and used it around the same time.

Greyhound UK was not a 'franchise'....Greyhound's owner (FirstGroup) simply took one of their UK properties, and rebranded it as Greyhound UK, until it ended operations. I guess you could call it a 'franchise', but since it was owned by the same parent, they did not have to pay any use fees...
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver:

Once again, greatly appreciate the interesting information you provide; especially interesting to read about VERMONT TRANSIT/GREYHOUND. Wink

Also, thanks for the information on "GREYHOUND" in Britain and in Australia; interesting to learn that the operations in Australia had no connections with GREYHOUND in the States (the Company had no issues with their use of the "running dog"?)

Hey, it's stuff like this that makes our hobby so interesting...... Very Happy

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver:

Enjoy these links.......Wink

www.showbus.com/australia/gallery/greyhound.htm *

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_Coaches

*interesting pictures! Very Happy
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
traildriver:

Once again, greatly appreciate the interesting information you provide; especially interesting to read about VERMONT TRANSIT/GREYHOUND. Wink

Also, thanks for the information on "GREYHOUND" in Britain and in Australia; interesting to learn that the operations in Australia had no connections with GREYHOUND in the States (the Company had no issues with their use of the "running dog"?)

Hey, it's stuff like this that makes our hobby so interesting...... Very Happy

"NYO"


Like the blurb in your link states, Greyhound Australia predated Greyhound's registration of that trademark officially in the US by a couple of years, even though Greyhound was an older company. Greyhound officially was chartered under the name of Motor Transit Corporation, even though unofficially it was called Greyhound. Later, recognizing the more popular name, they changed it officially. They were fortunate that they were not prevented from doing so by whatever international copyright or trade mark laws were in effect then...
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver:

Interesting! Wink

As transit enthusiasts often do (especially, those with avid imaginations!) "what if's" can often be quite fascinating.....image GREYHOUND as a world-wide conglomerate, operating an exlusive network of highways coaches across the globe, including Europe and Asia? Shocked

Reality-wise, recall KOREA GREYHOUND, operating forty-odd SCENICRUISERS and 4104's, back in the late 1960's/1970's?

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KOREA GREYHOUND (from: "GREYHOUND SCENICRUISER" (McNally/Rayman).....

"......yet another attempt to expand into foreign markets came in the late 1960's. GREYHOUND's new-Far Eastern venture; this new operation was known as KOREA GREYHOUND......."

"......a total of approximately 40 buses were overhauled at San Francisco, painted in the red-stripe livery, and then shipped to Korea. This new overseas fleet included both 4501's and 4104's......."

"NYO"
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