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Rollsigns/batwings/readings/routes, etc.
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 53
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 707
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That pic seemed to highlight (especially looking at the bottom of the bus) how NYCO's maintenance practices seemed to fall somewhere in-between "affiliate" FACCo's and Surface Transportation's - especially after the last-named entity's 1949 bankruptcy (which only ended when Fifth Avenue Coach Lines took it over in 1956). I know Yellow 740's came out in 1937 - wouldn't TB have had either 718's, 728's or 731's assigned originally? #425 definitely confirms that TB was assigned out of 146th Street in NYCO days (that 1969 Motor Coach Age article had a pic of 740 #428 about to embark on a #7 run - and #7 also came out of 146th).

But it does seem the front roll signs had the route spelled out. The 1964 left-side front sign as on here some pages back had it as 'TRI-BORO BRIDGE'.

I wondered why there was never a Motor Coach Age article on the 1956-62 period of Fifth Avenue Coach Lines and Surface Transit, which would have seen the death of longtime president John E. McCarthy and their acquisition of their 120 total 'New Look' buses (both in 1960), just as some examples. I know the M-105 Tenth Avenue line (which never actually ran along that avenue after 1948) was shunted to one franchise trip a day after April 15, 1957; any word on the specific date(s) NYCO Division's #22 - Pitt and Ridge Streets, and especially FACO Division's #1 - Fifth Avenue, were likewise so drastically reduced in service? (On the #1, I'd venture around late 1958, no?)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7825
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broadway & Vesey, 1972.

Note that #6193 is not only displaying a roller curtain reading for the "R10X", but is also sporting a paper "10X" paper sign in the windshield......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1628

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 53
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 707
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
Broadway & Vesey, 1972.

Note that #6193 is not only displaying a roller curtain reading for the "R10X", but is also sporting a paper "10X" paper sign in the windshield......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1628

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)

Looks like the driver thought the 'R10X' as on the front roll sign was too thin and narrow to read, so he decided to put up a sign on the windshield that was more readable . . .

And it was from that initial order of T6H-5309A's and 5310A's, folks, that the two-tone blue paint scheme for buses first took hold.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7825
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

Given the narrow lettering on the roller curtain, that would indeed make sense!

Ahhhh, now I also know what buses introduced the now-classic 1970's MTA blue scheme for the buses........ Wink

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7825
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flatbush & Nostrand, 1973.......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1879

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7825
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Merrick Blvd. & 89th Avenue, 1970......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1876

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7825
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avenue H & Flatbush, 1972.......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1898

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7825
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

25th Avenue & 86th St., 1971 (note the interesting "batwing" ad here for the "M3"!)

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1701

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 53
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 707
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
Flatbush & Nostrand, 1973.......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1879

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)

That bus recycled an original 1959 front roll sign, proving that reusing old signs was not the exclusive province of MaBSTOA.
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 53
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 707
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
25th Avenue & 86th St., 1971 (note the interesting "batwing" ad here for the "M3"!)

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1701

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)

The "M3" advertised later became M27 and is now M50; it was not the Fifth-St. Nicholas/Convent route once run by FACCo back in the day. It wasn't as if that bus in question was, however briefly, housed at the 126th Street 'MAN' depot in Manhattan now - or was it?
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7825
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

I know we must have discussed this in the past, but, anyway.......

When did the letter prefixes come into use? (I'm guessing it was early 70's, when the "Tee-Yay" became the "Em-Tee-Yay")

I know I've learned from others here (especially knowledgeable men yourself and MaBSTOA 15) that there are few bus routes in New York today that follow exactly the routes they followed originally.

I've read of the tremendous complexity involving route changes, cutbacks, short turns, renumberings, etc......VERY much "head spinners" (does not take much to make my head spin, anyway) and, once again, there is MORE to a bus line than meets the eye, especially when you start to delve into his rich and diverse history........

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Recalling the pre- prefix era........ Wink

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?388

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?389

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 53
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 707
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
W.B.:

I know we must have discussed this in the past, but, anyway.......

When did the letter prefixes come into use? (I'm guessing it was early 70's, when the "Tee-Yay" became the "Em-Tee-Yay")

I know I've learned from others here (especially knowledgeable men yourself and MaBSTOA 15) that there are few bus routes in New York today that follow exactly the routes they followed originally.

I've read of the tremendous complexity involving route changes, cutbacks, short turns, renumberings, etc......VERY much "head spinners" (does not take much to make my head spin, anyway) and, once again, there is MORE to a bus line than meets the eye, especially when you start to delve into his rich and diverse history........

"NYO"

In terms of the use we associate with today, when the T6H-5309A's and T6H-5310A's first entered service, for the 'Tee-Yay' in '72-3 and MaBSTOA in early 1973. There we first saw 'M' prefices added to ex-FACO Division and NYCO Division routes; they were used on and off over the years on TA (ex-BoT, ex Comprehensive/East Side) Manhattan routes and Surface Transit routes.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

Thanks......I see I was pretty much on the right track when I was thinking of the early 70's.

This reminds me a bit of NJT's current numbering; the only old route numbers (ex-PS) that I know offhand are the #165, #166, and #167.

The former NHBL routes (#'s 1 and 5) that ran by our old Union City apartment building back in the 60's were taken over by NJT years back, and I know those old NHBL numbers (used for decades) have been replaced with "new" NJT numbers.

To this day, when hearing of delays, etc. on Manhattan routes, while watching the news, the old FACCo/MaBSTOA numbers still come into my mind.......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Washington Plaza, 1972.

Here's an interesting (pre-prefix) contrasts of different style roller curtain displays for the "#44"*.........

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1621

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)

*Note that the GM's sign is also much larger and easier to read than the curtain used on the Flex......
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