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MaBSTOA 15
Age: 70 Joined: 27 Feb 2013 Posts: 1056
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Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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... and from the fourth order of GM TDH-5303 we have the first air conditioned buses with batwings.
IMHO, these buses were the pinnacle of the MaBSTOA fleet!
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22290 Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22290 Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22290 Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22290 Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22290 Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22290 Location: NEW JOISEY
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2379 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:48 am Post subject: |
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MaBSTOA 15 wrote: | This shows the typical front destination sign format on the old looks used by the Board of Transportation then the New York City Transit Authority.
Thee most significant difference is the street side (red curtain)... it had a one line reading within a black mask.
The only way to clearly read it was when the bus was right in front of you. The last to use it was the 1958 GM TDH-5106 in the 9000
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What would be still in use up to some three decades later, was the serif font numbers. After the creation of MaBSTOA, this serif type would spell out the numbers of buses for that agency. That type also dated way back to at least the 1930's (on Brooklyn streetcars and trackless trolleys as well as the BoT / TA bus fleet) if not earlier.
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2379 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:52 am Post subject: |
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MaBSTOA 15 wrote: | Here is an ex-Fifth Avenue Coach in its new owner's color scheme... #3139
Note three changes made by MaBSTOA:
1) side destination sign moved from behind the front door to the front of the rear door.
2) curved driver's stanchion to a straight stanchion
3) lower glass panels on rear door removed
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It looks like those rear doors were cannibalized from the first four years' worth of orders for 'Tee-Yay' New Looks, as those never had lower glass panels in the back. I've seen over the years various parts switched back and forth; the lower rear with the back lights also differed among models, once seeing one of the 1960 FACL/ST set bearing rear lights as from one of the 1963-67 buses - but conversely, one of the A/C Batwings bearing first-generation New Look rear lights in terms of how they looked.
Oh, and one other change that I know of: The Grant Electrofarer fareboxes replaced by then with a Johnson K-25 farebox.
Last edited by W.B. Fishbowl on Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2379 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:00 am Post subject: |
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MaBSTOA 15 wrote: | Here are three ex-Surface Transit new looks in MaBSTOA colors.
Note that 3164 is still in Surface colors but with the iconic MaBSTOA roof script. It is on route 4 with the destination signs mounted on the wrong sides.
Note that 3194 has no sign curtain but it has a cardboard, hand written, for "4 - Penn Sta" |
3164 would have been FACL/Surface colors, as that scheme was also on FACL #1-10 (6-10 later reassigned to ST) and 3101-3160. This must've been from the period (up to Sept. 29, 1963) when the 4 - Fifth Avenue-Fort Washington line was assigned out of the Kingsbridge depot - which was closer to this route's northernmost terminus of the Cloisters than its once-and-future depot assignment of 132nd Street. (This explains why, on that 1964-65 batwinged bus, the 4 front roll sign appears hand-painted; they would have been grafted onto the front roll signs of routes from that depot after the 4's re-reassignment to 132nd. It also explains why 3164's front roll signs' order was reversed.)
As for 3194 . . .
. . . no doubt from the same period, and the same route . . . but it's notable to me in that the 3194 number was in a serif font that was seen for years on FACCo and New York City Omnibus livery - and after 1962-63, on some repainted (but still sporting the green) 'Tee-Yay' stock, as one may find from time to time going through bus.nycsubway.org pics of TA (as opposed to MaBSTOA) bus rolling stock.
Last edited by W.B. Fishbowl on Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2379 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:05 am Post subject: |
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This is why many thought that the M-13 and M-15 both ran through First and Second (especially those putting out the Hagstrom Manhattan bus maps, and even into the 1957 and 1958 editions of Fifth Avenue Coach Lines' route maps). By 1955 these two separate routes would have been long consolidated into the singular M-15 - First and Second Avenues line - and the M-13 moniker recycled for a shuttle bus going to and from the New York Journal-American HQ in lower Manhattan (or as its route description called it, "Journal Building") - but it wasn't until the GMC TDH-5106's in the 7000's arrived in 1957 that such changes would have been reflected in the front roll signs.
Last edited by W.B. Fishbowl on Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2379 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:13 am Post subject: |
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MaBSTOA 15 wrote: | Freshly dusted by a Michigan snowfall and awaiting shipment to New York is a TDH-5303 from the second order of new looks.
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Notice how the side sign is structured - '106 42 St Xtown'. Compare this to this longstanding eBay entry of a side sign for these 'non-batwing' Fishbowls which did a full spelling-out of '106 42 Street Crosstown' that would have dated to c.1970-71 (another section, since sold, had the '2 5th & Madison Via Lenox' eliminated and thus '1 5th & Madison Via 135 St' was followed by '2A 5th & Madison Via Seventh Ave'):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/192744033823
And then there's the front roll sign. The ampersand (as in '145 St & Bway') would not have been on future orders, that I know of. The first to have a side sign next to the rear exit - and the last whose rear windows were built 3-piece.
While this was in Michigan, out in Loudonville, OH the first of the 'Tee-Yay's' set of buses built by Flxible (5001-5165) were being readied to have their close-up in one of the outer boroughs.
Last edited by W.B. Fishbowl on Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2379 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:18 am Post subject: |
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MaBSTOA 15 wrote: | From the second order, #5520, with batwings (and standee windows)
Note the wing ads and the MaBSTOA sticker and no "OA" circular logo.
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This is what I mean, on the front, of what appears to be hand-painted (or at least cloth) roll sign for the 4 route. But on the side - didn't the secondary route appear as 'Ft. Wash'n'ton'?
Also . . . the 'OA' insignia would have debuted on the third-order, 1965-66 set (6701-6900, which were originally all assigned to Manhattan depots whereas the non-batwing 6401-6700 were originally confined to the Bronx before a few of the non-batwings were swapped to Manhattan in exchange for a few batwings).
Last edited by W.B. Fishbowl on Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2379 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:29 am Post subject: |
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MaBSTOA 15 wrote: | ... and from the fourth order of GM TDH-5303 we have the first air conditioned buses with batwings.
IMHO, these buses were the pinnacle of the MaBSTOA fleet!
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Or as my late maternal grandfather would have put it, "the pinochle of their fleet."
The third OA TDH-5303 order with the batwings (as described in one of my above posts) was the first to bear the 'OA' logo - and the whole order was the first where the rear windows were built as 4-piece (and the window panel opposite to the rear exit was singular rather than 2-piece). Not to mention the last non-A/C.
The 'Tee-Yay' set of these A/C batwings (8001-8202, the only ones to have the 1963-67 'ta' logo posted on the fluted front cover of the batwings) - the second TDH-5303 order from that side - made this the first "dual order" for GMC for both OA and TA since the 1963 order which was the first for OA (3301-3555) and first TDH-5303 order for the TA (3601-3950), after two straight years (1964-66, in terms of total period of delivery and entry into service) where OA orders went to GM and TA orders to Flxible.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22290 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:55 am Post subject: |
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Fellows:
The vast and encyclopedic amount of MaBSTOA/Tee-Yay" roll sign (and bus) knowledge which you have generously shared here is truly beyond incredible.
This is EXACTLY the type of knowledge that truly BELONGS in print!
In our posting and discussing the many vintage photos here, a few questions came to mind, that I'd like to post here:
1: When MaBSTOA began operations, what were the oldest buses in the fleet, and how long until they were retired?
2: Were all roll signs on MaBSTOA buses hand-cranked, or did some of the fleet have electrically-operated signs?
3: Today, what former MaBSTOA routes have changed the LEAST since the early days?
4: When were the last original MaBSTOA New Looks retired by the MTA?
Thanks in advance for any input.......much appreciated......
"NYO"
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