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"It's just a big, boxy, new bus...so what?"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6788
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One last nostalgic GREEN BUS view.....

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?501

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 52
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 521
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 15 x 5x7 dot-matrix electronic destination signs were for me the saving grace of the 870's; an early system made by Gulton's Luminator division. The characters were the same as seen on the screens of early Apple computers before the company came up with the Macintosh. To this day I prefer the Luminator fonts to those of competing TransDot.

Of the pics seen here, you can get the feel of which MaBSTOA depots/garages housed which of the Grummans:
54th Street - PA107
132nd Street - PA113
Amsterdam - PA131, PA132
And that's just the buses the Port Authority purchased and then leased to MaBSTOA.

Now, let's take a look at some of the 'Tee-Yay' Grummans, shall we? (All pics courtesy bus.nycsubway.org.)

https://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?306

Er . . . that's it?!

In any case, the Grummans built for our system were as follows:

NYCTA:
201 - 552, PA1 - PA96
MaBSTOA:
601 - 910, PA97 - PA175
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6788
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

I, myself, noticed, just how few MTA/MABSTOA Grumman photos there were at bus.nycsubway.org; it is almost as though they weren't there at all!

This reminds me of the virtual lack of photos in Mr. Ogden's book on FACCo!

Like others, I'm sure, I gradually warmed to the GRUMMAN (and METRO), and, today, wish they were still around.

In looking back, despite their "clunker" status on the streets of New York, they STILL deserve the widespread photo documentation that was given the older buses (even at that, there are far more MTA/MABSTOA GM Fishbowl and Flex New Look photos at bus.nycsubway.org than photos of the RTS; to be fair, there ARE more of the RTS than the GRUMMAN)

Personally, I think it would be interesting to learn just what the ultimate disposition was of all the ex-MTA Grummans (scrapped, sold, etc)

Also, to what routes and depots they were initially assigned to.

Certainly, these buses will never be as highly regarded as the Old Looks, New Looks, and the RTS, but still, they WERE a part of New York's fleet for several years, and indeed deserve more attention, especially, that it is now just about 40 years that they first entered service......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6788
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GRUMMAN days on MSBA............

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3561 *

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3566 **

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3563

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3565

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)

*NO PROBLEM whatsoever at seeing GRUMMAN #968's roller curtain
reading, from a distance!!!! Shocked Shocked

** Another "LOUD AND CLEAR" roller curtain reading!! Shocked (also, note MTA Fishbowl trailing the GRUMMAN)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6788
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"DOUBLEHEADER!" (Roosevelt Field, 1981)

Again, note the BIG and BOLD lettering on those MSBA Grumman roller curtains.....QUITE easy to read, I might say...... Wink

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3580

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6788
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

......never thought I'd ever think of the GRUMMAM/METRO as an "old" bus, let alone a "classic".........man, does time fly....... Rolling Eyes

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 65
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 605

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are some figures, directly from the NYCTA's Facts and Figures, 1981-1982.

GRUMMAN FLXIBLE 870

837 ordered plus 13 for Avenue B and East Broadway Transit: buses were added to the TA fleet when the TA absorbed this company.

Date placed in service: June 18, 1980

Fleet Numbers: PA 1-175; 201-565 (including the Ave. B buses); 601-910

Wheel chair lift: 200 buses; cost per lift: $17,254.00

Kneeling feature: all

Cost of bus: $102-105,000

Engine: 6V-71N


GM RTS-4

837 ordered

Date placed in service: August 3, 1981

Fleet numbers: PA 1316-1658; 1201-1315; 2201-2579

Wheel chair lift: all; cost per lift: $17,000

Cost of bus: $150,000

Engine: 6V-71; 6V-92T
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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 65
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 605

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are the MaBSTOA depot assignments for the Grumman 870's and the GM RTS-4 including those that were still in service alongside these advanced design buses.

Unfortunately, the listing does not show models only fleet numbers and depots.



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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 65
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 605

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are the NYCTA depot assignments for the Grumman 870's and the GM RTS-4 including those that were still in service alongside these advanced design buses.

Unfortunately, the listing does not show models only fleet numbers and depots.



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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 65
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 605

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

... and NYCTA depot assignments for 1982


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B53RICH




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 222

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

7656-7659 were at Jamaica.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6788
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaBSTOA 15:

MANY, MANY THANKS for taking the time to locate and post all of this excellent data regarding the GRUMMANS; again, it DOES make me scratch my head and wonder WHY that there are so very few MTA/MABSTOA Grumman photos on nycsubway.org.

Though these ill-fated (and now classic) buses were not in the MTA fleet all that long, one would think that there would be more photos of these buses, whether in service, laying over at depots, etc.

After all, they WERE an integral part of New York's fleet for some time, MORE than enough time to capture these buses on film many, many times over.

Given the meager number of MTA/MABSTOA Grumman photos on nycsubway.org, it is almost as though the photos were "fillers only", and nothing more.

Talk about the "proverbial red-headed stepchild"..........Sad

Again, THANK YOU for posting this great wealth of GRUMMAN-related data........ Very Happy

"NYO"
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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 65
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 605

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interior view of a MaBSTOA/NYCTA Grumman Flxible 870.

Note the single seats on the curb side and the lack of the driver's horizontal stanchion.

WOW! a Keene K-25 farebox!



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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6788
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TALK ABOUT NOSTALGIA!!!!!!! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

The single seats on the curb side recall some of Flex METROS operated by ACADEMY, when I was still commuting, back in the 90's.

I cannot recall the number series, however, I DO remember that the 3200's had high-backed, upholstered "suburban"-style seatings.

The "transit" versions all had plastic single seats on the curb side.

I can recall some of the units that ran on the old NHBL #1 between Journal Square and Nungessers having this same seating arrangement (were these ex-MTA buses?)

By any chance, do you have any info on what New Jersey "indy/IBOA" companies eventually got some of the ex-MTA buses?

More than likely, I rode most of them, back in the day, especially those that ran in the Hudson/Bergen County area.

In "THE BUS WORLD ENCYCLOPEDIA OF BUSES" (Stauss), it states that FLXIBLE re-manufactured over 800 MTA Grummans for resale; NJT purchased a number, and others went to Cincinnati and Puerto Rico.

Again, greatly appreciate your highly detailed input........ Wink

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6788
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of ACADEMY's 3200 series (here represented by #3275), pulling out of the Hoboken terminal, back in the 90's.

I rode these buses for several years on the rush-hour "BOULEVARD EAST" route (this is an NJT route today)

I vividly remember the HUGE readings on the roller curtains, before they were replaced by electronic models (which NONE of the drivers I knew liked!)

The big and bold "HOBOKEN PATH TUBES" (white on blue) sign still remains firmly fixed in my mind's eye today........

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3356

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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