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Diesel consumption/fueling up

 
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6569
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:14 pm    Post subject: Diesel consumption/fueling up Reply with quote

All:

Curious as to which buses were more fuel efficient, Old Looks or New Looks?

To me, at least, the MACKS looked like very thirsty "guzzlers".

How fuel efficient were the GRUMMANS?

Also curious (on average) how often the buses needed their tanks filled again (I know many factors would be involved here)

What about the fueling needs/consumption of the present-day MTA fleet?

Also, hoping one of the "experts" here might be able to provide some vintage photos showing BoT/NYCTA/MTA buses "filling up".

Appreciate any info on this inquiry....

"NYO"
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 52
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
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Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The very first buses put into service for New York City Omnibus in 1935-36 were gas. Don't know when the first diesels came on the scene, but certainly among the first would be the first of the 'Old Looks', TD-4502 and TD-4505, in 1941-42. I seem to remember reading in old NYCO annual reports that some time in the later '40's some of the buses originally made for gas were converted to diesel.
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N4 Jamaica




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 654
Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The search engine at BusTalk returns too many answers on threads that go for many pages, so it is difficult to find old answers to new discussions.
---
At any rate, I recall seeing a post THIS YEAR stating that some Surface Transportation buses of the late 1930's were diesel-electrics, not gasoline-electrics. That is, the transmission was electric, the engines sending power to the electric motors that powered the axle. Unfortunately, I cannot find this reference.
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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 65
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've looked through my Motor Coach Age magazines and not one makes a reference to the diesel engines except that the issue on Surface Transportation, dated March 1970 states that beginning in the summer of 1938, diesel electrics were added in quantity by Surface.

Surface's Yellow Coach model 746, identical to the model 740, were diesel electrics with a 4-71 engine.

New York City Omnibus converted many of their Yellow Coach models 740 to diesel when they rebuilt them with the new indented windshields in the early 1950s.

Fifth Avenue Coach's 740s were probably diesel.

Possibly the first true diesel bus in New York was Fifth Avenue's #2500, Yellow Coach model TD-5501.

Can't tell you the exact amount of diesel consumed by those old look buses but I can certainly tell you about the intoxicating sweet smell of those diesels as they blew a cloud of black smoke as they passed by!

I remember the smell of oil mixed with diesel fumes of the Surface Macks it was really disgusting.
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MaBSTOA 15



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are four screen captures from the fueling station at a TA garage, perhaps East New York.

The bus in question is a Mack C-50-DT, number 5547.

What struck me the most is that the diesel pump is labeled "Mack"

These snapshots are from a video entitled: "Transit, Everybody's Business" produced by the New York City Transit Authority. It has great subway and bus scenes as well as support services.



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MaBSTOA 15



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two more scenes...


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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaBSTOA 15:

I been having this STRANGE premonition that, if ANYONE was going to come across vintage NYC bus refueling photos, it was going to be you....I see I was NOT at all off the mark......THANK YOU for sharing these! Wink

The fuel pumps lettered "MACK" are a hoot; NEVER saw the likes of this before! Shocked

The basic type of fuel pump easily recall my memories of the pumps used at my two uncles' "SINCLAIR" and "GULF" stations, back in the early 60's.....pump designs have indeed changed greatly in those 60-odd years!

The gas buses I remember, back in the early/mid 1960's ,included the very oldest Old Looks (YELLOW and early GM) operated by the NHBL when I was growing up; also, with a few of the other area "indy" companies as well, back in those days.

I remember DE CAMP operating both diesel and gas ACF-BRILLS, into the 1960's......even after 50 years,can still hear (and smell!) those brawny, gutsy growlers hard at work........ Very Happy

(INTER-CITY also rostered ACF-BRILLS well into the 60's; I also remember these buses well)

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick question for the "Noo Yawk" experts here, regarding the Museum bus fleet.........

How do these vintage buses do with current (diesel) fuel?

Given that these historic buses date back to the 1950's and 1960's, I'm wondering how they do with "today's diesel" (is there much difference that what they used when in service?)

Also, emissions.

Thanks again....

"NYO"
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Location: Queens, NY

PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This gas/diesel discussion reminds me of the PD-4104's...their DD 6-71 diesel tank was on the door side, and the gasoline engine for the air-conditioner was on the driver's side. Even so, mistakes were made occasionally putting diesel fuel into the gasoline tank, resulting in engine trouble...

The new 4106 solved the problem...its 8v-71 had sufficient power for traction and the A/C... Smile
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver wrote:
This gas/diesel discussion reminds me of the PD-4104's...their DD 6-71 diesel tank was on the door side, and the gasoline engine for the air-conditioner was on the driver's side. Even so, mistakes were made occasionally putting diesel fuel into the gasoline tank, resulting in engine trouble...

The new 4106 solved the problem...its 8v-71 had sufficient power for traction and the A/C... Smile


traildriver:

This is something I did not know about; thanks for sharing some "wisdom" with us! Wink

I am now recalling the variations of sounds heard aboard both GM Old Look and New Look buses, both manual transmission and automatic.

Both auto- and manual- transmission GM's both shared similar sounds, but also, in conjunction with the type of transmission used, had sounds unique to their "breed", if you will.

I used LOVE the sound of an Old Look transit idling; you'd hear that steady, oh-so-enjoyable "gug-gug-gug-gug-gug-gug-gug" (accompanied by the musical jingling of a Johnson "D" farebox!); with Old Look suburbans (and 4104's) the sounds you'd hear made you think of a huge, powerful, impatient beast being (barely) held at bay, ready to break free:

"GGRRRRRRRRRRuuummmmm-GGrrrrrrrruuuuuuuummmmmm-GGrrrrruuuummmmGGRRRRRRRRRRRuuuuuummmmmm-GGrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrruuuuuuummmmmmmmmm-GGRRRRRuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmm-GGrrrrruuummmmmmm!!!!!!"

REALLY deep-throated and husky, a really GUTSY and powerful sound!!!!!!

MACKS and ACF-BRILLS:

These were the tough, no-nonsense, swaggering Rocky Grazianos and Jack Dempseys of the bus world, back in the day......NO self-respecting motorists DARED to get in the way of one of these big, beefy, swaggering rubber-tired "prizefighters"! Very Happy

Ahhhh, memories....... Rolling Eyes

"NYO"
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