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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22646 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:36 pm Post subject: Tommorrow's "classics"? Your opinions are welcome! |
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Fellows:
We loved the Old Looks and New Looks; we grew up with them, we rode them, photographed them (and, in some cases, drove them)
In some sense, we all took them for granted with the time honored: "Oh, they'll be around forever" (I too, am guilty of this)
The last Old Look in my area vanished in 1986; the last Fishbowl in 1997.
With their sleek, timeless, "All American" styling, it is easy to see why these buses are now highly regarded by bus enthusiasts and historians.
A number of us here, including yours truly, I will admit, are less than enamored with most of today's buses (in New York and elsewhere)
Some of us equate today's fleet as "oversized milk cartons", "giant millipedes" , and other, not-so-flattering monikers.
It took me many years to "warm" up to the GRUMMAN (and METRO) as well as the RTS.
Today, the GRUMMAN/METRO buses are history, and the RTS is now poised to disappear from city streets.
With today's New York buses, I am wondering what (if any) buses will one day be considered a "classic", historically significant, a vehicle worthy of preservation.
Your opinion?
"NYO" |
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traildriver
Joined: 26 Mar 2011 Posts: 2459 Location: South Florida
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Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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NYO--
While I appreciate your sentiment, buses than and now pretty much fall into the "form follows function" school of design. Today, perhaps only the RTS does not look "like the box it came in", at least compared to the other's...
Only a bus employee or enthusiast could readily tell an Orion from a Flyer, or a Gillig. Years ago, anyone on the street could identify a Scenicruiser.... |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22646 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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traildriver wrote: | NYO--
While I appreciate your sentiment, buses than and now pretty much fall into the "form follows function" school of design. Today, perhaps only the RTS does not look "like the box it came in", at least compared to the other's...
Only a bus employee or enthusiast could readily tell an Orion from a Flyer, or a Gillig. Years ago, anyone on the street could identify a Scenicruiser.... |
traildriver:
Agreed!
Recall the era of the Old Looks; that was the era when streamlined body curves were in vogue; today, it is (obviously) more inexpensive to repair and/or replace flat body panels, instead of dealing with complex curves (recall the FLXIBLE Clippers, Visicoaches, and Airporters!)
I remember HATING the GRUMMANS (and later METROS) when they began replacing the older buses; it was a number of years before I started to "warm up" to them.
They are gone now in my area well over a decade, and, I must admit, I do miss those boxy-looking buses!
Today, there are only three types of modern buses (all NJT) I can identify in my area: the NEOPLAN, the NABI, and the MCI.
Every so often, I can recognize a VAN HOOL on a charter run.
But, other than that, I really cannot identify bus models/builders as I used to be able to do so easily.
Time, marches on, I guess.......
"NYO" |
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W.B. Fishbowl
Age: 57 Joined: 02 Oct 2014 Posts: 2422 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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I had a soft spot for the Gulton Luminator electronic front and side sign displays on first the Grummans, then half of the GM RTS's. Wasn't as enamoured of the TransDot displays. Apparently, there was a formula of which RTS's got which display - one of the companies was on buses with a T8W- prefix, another set on those with a T8J- prefix. |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22646 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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W.B. Fishbowl wrote: | I had a soft spot for the Gulton Luminator electronic front and side sign displays on first the Grummans, then half of the GM RTS's. Wasn't as enamoured of the TransDot displays. Apparently, there was a formula of which RTS's got which display - one of the companies was on buses with a T8W- prefix, another set on those with a T8J- prefix. |
W.B.:
You reminded me of the ACADEMY Metros that I commuted on, back in the 90's; they originally had HUGE roller curtains that could be read a block away.
The ones on the "BLVD. EAST" rush hour-only route read "HOBOKEN PATH TUBES".
When these were replaced with electronic signs, the drivers HATED them!
Instead of just flicking a switch to turn the curtain to the correct reading, they now had to punch out a code on a keypad; too many times to count, at the beginning of the line on an AM run, I would have to stand outside and make sure that the driver had a correct reading!
I guess the moral here is :"If it ain't broke, DON'T fix it!
(I had a LOT of fun with my position as "Sign Reader Assistant", and I always rode for free!)
IMHO, however, the New Look was the most modern and timeless transit bus ever built; I still cannot believe it has been 20 years sincew I last saw or rode one.......
"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22646 Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22646 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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If I eventually "warmed" to the old GRUMMAN/METRO, I really have no problem with a "boxy" bus, excepting that mostly white bodies (think NJT, here) or "funky", bizarre wraps do nothing (IMHO) to improve the overall appearance of said bus.
Yes, I know that paint IS expensive, but, I am sure, there is a method of "painting" such vehicles that is both cost-effective and pleasant to look at.
Design-wise, I HATE the new Proterra buses that SEPTA is now receiving; the fronts resemble some sort of giant insect (like many modern light rail units); the oversized windshields, unlike the New Look of yesterday, just seems too "far out"/bizarre (again, this is only my own opinion)
Of course, we must be realistic; bus builders are certainly not in business to keep we enthusiasts happy.......they are, of course, building buses to efficiently and safely carry passengers from Point "A" to Point "B".
Still, I do appreciate a bus that LOOKS like a BUS, and not a "TELEPORTER 4000" from a galaxy far, far away.........
"NYO" |
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traildriver
Joined: 26 Mar 2011 Posts: 2459 Location: South Florida
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:41 am Post subject: |
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I looked at that first image of the Mack, and noted the location...it seems like the photographer was standing right in front of the old Capital Greyhound Terminal....
Sure wish he'd have turned around and snapped a couple of photo's of it...
It is so hard to find any good shots of it from the street, or inside.
Currently located on that location is the Gershwin Theater garage, if I figured correctly...
*
From a distance, about the only way to tell you are behind a bus, and not a truck, is the sides tapering in slightly going towards the roof, although the Orion low floor model's are pretty straight sided... |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22646 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:05 am Post subject: |
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traildriver wrote: | I looked at that first image of the Mack, and noted the location...it seems like the photographer was standing right in front of the old Capital Greyhound Terminal....
Sure wish he'd have turned around and snapped a couple of photo's of it...
It is so hard to find any good shots of it from the street, or inside.
Currently located on that location is the Gershwin Theater garage, if I figured correctly...
*
From a distance, about the only way to tell you are behind a bus, and not a truck, is the sides tapering in slightly going towards the roof, although the Orion low floor model's are pretty straight sided... |
traildriver:
Agreed; sure would have been great if said photographer turned around and snapped a few Hounds!
Old photos like these truly are "time machines", they are more than worth their weight in gold.
The "indy" companies in my area when I was growing up in the 60's rostered several models of MACKS, as well as Old Looks and WHITES; to this day, I remember the MACK as a "tough, street-wise" bus, that rumbled along the streets of Gotham with an almost cocky, prize-fighter swagger, that seemed to shout out to motorists: "GET OUDDA DA WAY! I'M A MACK!"
Without a doubt, the Old Looks were also "Patton Tanks" in their own right.....functional yet sleek!
"NYO"
Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:41 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22646 Location: NEW JOISEY
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frankie
Age: 77 Joined: 01 Feb 2011 Posts: 747 Location: St. Peters, Mo.
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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Great topic! I remembered the opportunities of photographing St. Louis buses back in the '70's and '80's thinking that there's nothing special about them only to become iconic classics of the past. One would have learned from that, but here we are again with the same unchanged mindset.
Just like when you can ID a car back in the past just from it's shape or distinctive features, buses were the same way. Today cars as well as buses have such homogenized looks about them that they are almost indistinguishable unless you read the emblem especially with the automobile.
I say go ahead and photograph as many buses as you can. As the old adage goes, it's best to have and not need it than wanting it and not having it.
Frankie |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22646 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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frankie wrote: | Great topic! I remembered the opportunities of photographing St. Louis buses back in the '70's and '80's thinking that there's nothing special about them only to become iconic classics of the past. One would have learned from that, but here we are again with the same unchanged mindset.
Just like when you can ID a car back in the past just from it's shape or distinctive features, buses were the same way. Today cars as well as buses have such homogenized looks about them that they are almost indistinguishable unless you read the emblem especially with the automobile.
I say go ahead and photograph as many buses as you can. As the old adage goes, it's best to have and not need it than wanting it and not having it.
Frankie |
Frankie:
Well said!
I can look at a photograph taken 50 or more years ago (say, of a parking lot) and be able to identify virtually every auto in the lot; today, I could not even BEGIN to tell one from the other, even if my life depended on it!
Too, the buses of old also had much individuality in their sounds (engines, brakes, etc.); even as a kid, before I knew the different makes of buses, I could still (with my eyes closed) tell just what kind of bus was approaching just by sounds (and what SWEET sounds they were!)
Both Old Look and New Look suburbans also had their own distinctive sounds.....sounds I can still hear in my memories today.
I also miss the not-at-all-long ago days when TRIBORO, STEINWAY, and GREEN BUS were still "indy" companies";they added both color and variety to the "mix", if you will.
And, of course, who could ever forget those handsome NYBS New Looks..........
"NYO"
Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22646 Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22646 Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22646 Location: NEW JOISEY
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