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What's going on with The Hound?
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 2452
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the seventies, it looked like the only ferries to survive were the big Staten Island boats. Plus various tour boats around the harbor.
The City had 'forgotton' what a trememdous asset, its waterways were.

Now, it seems there are more ferry routes than there ever were before, and more coming. Unfortunately none carry auto's, until you get to either Port Jefferson to Bridgeport, Orient Point to New London, or Cape May to Lewes.

I have often thought that they could make a success of adding some vehicular ferries, but than the problem becomes, where does the traffic get onto highways at the landing sites?

I think that a ferry that would run from Port Chester to Glen Cove, would do pretty well. It would save trucks especially, a tremendous amount of time between Long Island, Westchester, and beyond....
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver wrote:
In the seventies, it looked like the only ferries to survive were the big Staten Island boats. Plus various tour boats around the harbor.
The City had 'forgotton' what a trememdous asset, its waterways were.

Now, it seems there are more ferry routes than there ever were before, and more coming. Unfortunately none carry auto's, until you get to either Port Jefferson to Bridgeport, Orient Point to New London, or Cape May to Lewes.

I have often thought that they could make a success of adding some vehicular ferries, but than the problem becomes, where does the traffic get onto highways at the landing sites?

I think that a ferry that would run from Port Chester to Glen Cove, would do pretty well. It would save trucks especially, a tremendous amount of time between Long Island, Westchester, and beyond....


traildriver:

Agreed; there are now a great many ferry routes criss-crossing the waters of New York Harbor; however, only the Staten Island crossing still uses "traditional" double-ended ferries.

I have often thought of a rebirth of vehicular ferries in New York; certainly, the tunnels and bridges are often beyond gridlock at rush hours, leaving motorists with no option or alternate routes.

Few today know that, until 1943, ELECTRIC FERRIES operated a vehicular ferry line from the foot of Baldwin Avenue in Weehawken (near to the Lincoln Tunnel) to the "union" ferry terminal at the foot of W. 23rd St., Manhattan (ferries of the DL&W, ERIE, and the CNJ all docked here; the last boats to serve this massive terminal were those of the DL&W, making the final crossing to Hoboken in late 1946)

This ferry, after the opening of the Lincoln Tunnel in 1937 (initially, there was only one tube) was used as an "outlet" during busy periods when the Tunnel's one tube was jammed.

The "UNDERCLIFF FERRY", as it was known, operated some of the original 1926-era "ELECTRIC FERRIES" until service ended in 1943.

Such a crossing would obviously see much traffic today, especially with the current 495 rebuilding, which is supposed to take at least several years to complete.......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another good example of "progress" (if we can call it that) was the shutting down of the Brooklyn-69th St. ferry to St. George, when the VZ opened in late 1964.

The opening of the Bridge was thought to alleviate and relive the bottlenecks that then existed as autos and trucks waited in long lines to board the Brooklyn boats (all the boats were "Electric Ferries).

It should have, at least, been kept as an alternate route; today, virtually every day, I hear reports on 1010 WINS about congestion on the span.

In reality, it's back to the proverbial "Square One", but with no available secondary outlet when the VZ is jammed.

As a kid, I well remember the lengthy lines, especially at St. George, waiting to board a Brooklyn boat.

When the Staten Island Ferry ceased carrying vehicles after 9/11, it marked the end of the days when public ferries carried motor vehicles in New York Harbor.

IMHO, carrying vehicles on the boats should have been re-instated at some time after the terror attacks on 9/11.

Today, only the veteran "KENNEDY", out of all the ferries in the SI fleet, is still capable of carrying motor vehicles........

"NYO"
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traildriver




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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's hope that they keep the Kennedy 'seaworthy', just to provide emergency transportation for first response vehicle's if nothing else, when the new replacements arrive in the next couple of year's...

The problem with a car ferry to Weehawkin, is where do the car's go when they get there...they would be in the same mess as the Lincoln Tunnel traffic.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver wrote:
Let's hope that they keep the Kennedy 'seaworthy', just to provide emergency transportation for first response vehicle's if nothing else, when the new replacements arrive in the next couple of year's...

The problem with a car ferry to Weehawkin, is where do the car's go when they get there...they would be in the same mess as the Lincoln Tunnel traffic.


traildriver:

Agreed 100%.

The area where the old "UNDERCLIFF FERRY" had its slips is now totally unrecognizable from what it was, even as it appeared in the 1970's (the rotted remains of the slip were still visible then; I did take a photo)

So many new buildings, roads, etc., would indeed make it quite difficult to build a new access road (as well as a slip) if a modern-day version of this ferry were to ever make a comeback.

So many factors would be involved, to be sure.

However, if these (and other) obstacles could be overcome, a new vehicular ferry might just be a true "diamond in the rough"...........

"NYO"
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver:

Earlier, we were talking about the bygone era of "streamlining".......

The only New York Harbor ferries that presented at least a "modest" streamlined appearance were the three boats of the "MISS NEW YORK" class, which entered the Staten Island fleet between 1937 and 1938.

With their modern cabin windows and short stacks, these three handsome ferries indeed looked quite modernistic compared to the older two-stacked boats that then comprised the fleet.

When the new "KENNEDY" diesels arrived in 1965, there was some talk of converting the "MISS NEW YORK" class to passenger only-vessels, which would have made them compatible with today's fleet.

Though their short stacks gave the boats a sleek, modern appearance, it did not improve boiler room ventilation; temperatures of 120 degrees were reported at the onset (!!)

However, later improvements in the ventilation system made the below-decks temperatures more bearable.

On the flip side, the class were very popular with their officers.

Sadly, none of these handsome ferries exist today.

The "GOLD STAR MOTHER" was OOS by 1970, and she was, for a time, moored at Pier 43, converted for use as a floating rehab center; this earned her the unflattering nickname, "GOLD STAR METHADONE".

By this time, she had been stripped of parts to keep her sisters running.

By the early 70's, both the "MISS NEW YORK" and the "MARY MURRAY" were retired; the "MURRAY", for decades, sat aground on a mud flat on the Raritan River, where, several years ago, she was scrapped on the spot.

The "MISS NEW YORK", for many years, served as a restaurant adjacent to the old New Haven (Metro North) station at Bridgeport.

After this restaurant closed, she was towed down to NY Harbor; to become a "sister ship" to the now-gone "BINGHAMTON".

Tied up to an old industrial pier, she sank during a period of heavy (Hudson) river ice; of course, she was later scrapped.

I well remember riding these handsome vessels, back in my much younger years........

"NYO"
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traildriver




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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a site with some old pics...

https://www.siferry.com/pastvessels2.html

Too bad they don't build them in Staten Island, anymore...not since the 1951 boats, at least....
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver:

WOW!!! Shocked

THANK YOU for sharing this page; I'd like to have a dollar for every time Mom and I rode those old red boats! Wink

What great memories these old pictures bring back! Very Happy

Speaking of SI ferries built in Staten Island:

The "RICHMOND" ("5 BOROUGHS CLASS") was built by the BURLEE DRY DOCK COMPANY in Port Richmond, in 1905.

Other SI ferries which were built in Staten Island:

"PRESIDENT ROOSEVELT"

"AMERICAN LEGION" (1)

"DONGAN HILLS"

"TOMPKINSVILLE"

"KNICKERBOCKER" (these five boats were all built by the S.B. COMPANY of Mariners Harbor.

Interestingly, the "AMERICAN LEGION" (1) was the first oil burner in the SI fleet.....

"NYO"
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remembering a great ol' Staten Island gal.........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Mary_Murray

The following page features some haunting photos that are quite melancholy, to say the least......what a sad end for one of the famed Staten Island ferries........

http://www.tideandcurrenttaxi.org/?p=1078


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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traildriver




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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great stuff, thanks for posting!

I will say, however, after reading that blog, I have no respect for these "would-be urban archeologists", that don't respect private property, and no trespassing sign's. If they happened to get hurt, the first thing they would try to do is sue the owner...

Sorry for the 'rant'.... Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver wrote:
Great stuff, thanks for posting!

I will say, however, after reading that blog, I have no respect for these "would-be urban archeologists", that don't respect private property, and no trespassing sign's. If they happened to get hurt, the first thing they would try to do is sue the owner...

Sorry for the 'rant'.... Smile


traildriver:

Agreed 100%.

As much as I would have loved to explore the old "MARY MURRAY", I would not have wanted to go on board, even if I had permission from the owner.

Far too many hazards (seen and unseen) to take into consideration; I would, rather, be at some nearby vantage point and take photos.

However, I DO hope that at least some artifacts were preserved; I am VERY fortunate to have a large metal engine room bell chart from the "VERRAZZANO", as well as some gauges and other small hardware (ALL aquired LEGALLY, btw!) Wink

I have seen excellent (albeit sad) photos of the "BINGHAMTON" (both interior and exterior photos) taken only several years ago; the grand old boat, was, clearly, beyond any hope of salvage.

The east side of the old ferry looked as though she had had a nasty run-in with a freighter; the interior views showed incredible destruction and neglect.

A sad, sad end for the very last of the Hudson River railroad ferries. Sad


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Certainly not the most dignified way for two ex-Staten Island veterans to spend their final years afloat.

I have so many memories of these massive and majestic vessels; they had the distinction of being the very last steam ferries to operate in New York Harbor.

This is an excellent collection of photos, nonetheless.

I can still hear their throaty whistles today.

Rust In Peace, faithful old friends........

http://www.correctionhistory.org/html/museum/gallery/ferries/scrapkeane.html
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traildriver




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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I am going to have to ask Ted Scull if he has any of his ferry history books left for sale! Wink

And I will be taking a ride to SI on Sunday, the 30th, and on to Tottenville on the SIR, with a group of railfans from the Amtrak Unlimited forum.
I'll be sure to play Carly Simon singing "Let The River Run" on my phone... Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver wrote:
I guess I am going to have to ask Ted Scull if he has any of his ferry history books left for sale! Wink

And I will be taking a ride to SI on Sunday, the 30th, and on to Tottenville on the SIR, with a group of railfans from the Amtrak Unlimited forum.
I'll be sure to play Carly Simon singing "Let The River Run" on my phone... Smile


traildriver:

Sure hope you and your friends have a great time....be sure to fill me in on all the details! Wink

I STILL call the SIR the "Staten Island Rapid Transit"; of course, I go back to the days of rattan seated ME-1's, wooden station houses, and grade crossings! Very Happy

Remember the electric "RIDE THE RAPID" sign at the entrance to the SIRT concourse at St. George? Wink

The last time I rode on the SIRT was back in 1987; at Tottenville, the rotting remains of the old Perth Amboy ferry slip were still visible, as was a portion of the crumbling covered walkway to the old ferry house from the SIRT station (I took several photos that day!)

As to the ferryboats, it never ceases to amaze me that NOT ONE of the old Staten Island boats has been preserved; after all, the Staten Island Ferry is to New York as the cable cars are to San Francisco!

That is why I truly hope that, when the "KENNEDY" is retired, that she will be saved from the cutting torch.

Not only was she one the class that introduced diesels to the Staten Island fleet, but she also has the longest service record (53 years as I type this) of any of the Staten Island boats.

Let's hope that a bright future awaits the "KENNEDY" whe she retires at some future date......... Very Happy

"NYO"
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An interesting tidbit on the "MERRELL", from Mr. Scull's "THE STATEN ISLAND FERRY":

".........on the car deck there are three lines of folded yellow benches running the length of the deck on two sides. Years ago, during the rush hours, vehicles were frequently banned from this boat to allow another 1300 passengers to be carried on this deck........"

".........during the winter months, four steel doors were dropped to give protection against the elements. A pair of wooden swinging doors were installed in the steel panels to allow for passenger movement........."

"........when the steel doors were damaged by high clearance vehicles, this practice was abandoned. This foretold the future of passenger-only boats......"

"NYO"
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