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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22536
Location: NEW JOISEY
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 Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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Early days of B&O train connection bus operations to and from Manhattan.
This B&O motor coach station was located at the Chanin Building.......
http://cs.trains.com/ctr/f/3/t/230410.aspx |
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traildriver
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 2458
Location: South Florida
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:03 am Post subject: |
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Do you remember when the pre-MTA Staten Island Rapid Transit conducter's wore B&O uniform's? B&O for a long period owned the SIRT. There is a story about a wartime secret train that carried British PM Winston Churchill over the line from Cranford, NJ to St. George...
There never was regular passenger service on the now defunct North Shore Branch west of Arlington and on to New Jersey... |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22536
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| traildriver wrote: | Do you remember when the pre-MTA Staten Island Rapid Transit conducter's wore B&O uniform's? B&O for a long period owned the SIRT. There is a story about a wartime secret train that carried British PM Winston Churchill over the line from Cranford, NJ to St. George...
There never was regular passenger service on the now defunct North Shore Branch west of Arlington and on to New Jersey... |
traildriver:
Yes, without a doubt, the old SIRT (today's Staten Island Railroad) indeed has a rich and colorful history.
Here is some SIRT "trivia" for you:
In the 60's, the cars were repainted in B&O colors, replacing the old olive drab.
The ferryboats to Whitehall Street were owned and operated by the SIRT until 1905, when the City took over.
The old side wheel ferries were retired and the new "5 BOROUGHS" class boats entered service, and the terminals at Whitehall St. and St. George were revamped and modernized for upper deck loading.
At the time, all the Manhattan El lines converged at the Whitehall ferry terminal, make it QUITE a busy facility!
The overall design of the "5 BOROUGHS" ferries was clearly evident in the later "DONGAN HILLS" class boats, which were retired in 1965, when the new "KENNEDY" class diesels replaced them.
Prior to electrification in 1925, the SIRT's steam engines hauled open-platform cars, similiar to those used on the elevated lines.
In 1925, new MU cars arrived (motor and trailer units); these were the classic ME-1's, that ran until 1973.
The cars had end vestibules like the IRT cars, but they followed the general pattern of the BMT "Standards"; this was because at the time, the SIRT was to tunnel under the Narrows, and link up with the BMT's 4th Avenue line in Brooklyn.
Once on BMT rails, SIRT trains would continue on to Manhattan, to terminate at Chambers Street; this cavernous, now-crumbling station was a terminal then, and was quite a beehive of activity.
In fact, there are still, to this day, pockets for the SIRT tunnels just outside the BMT's 59th St. station in Brooklyn.
Many factors killed off the ambitious tunnel plan, which would have linked Staten Island with Manhattan.
Passenger service on the SOUTH BEACH and ARLINGTON (North Shore) lines ended in 1953; surplus ME-1's were sold to the NYCTA for service on the BMT.
The cars were repainted, had their SIRT headlights removed, had subway-style Axiflow fans installed, and had their flip-over seats bolted in place, that they could no longer be flipped over at the end of the line.
Metal destination sign plates, rescued from scrapped elevated cars, were also installed on the ex-SIRT cars.
After a serious yard fire at the SIRT shops at Clifton in 1962, where several cars were destroyed, the SIRT then regretted selling off the surplus cars in 1953.
In the early 70's, several LIRR "ZIP" MU's were floated over to Staten Island, for testing to test their ability in SIRT service; needless to say, they were not successful.
Today's R-44 fleet has been in use now now for well over 40 years; until quite recently, the SIRT was still using B&O-style position light signals.
The SIRT was a unique and colorful railroad, combining "big city" rapid transit with Midwestern interurban; its ancient cars, antiquated wooden stations and grade crossings gave it a charm that made it a tremendous favorite with the "juice fans" of the era.
Back in the 60's, Mom and I rode the SIRT many, many times, and I still have many vivid memories of the old cars; also, until 1963, small ferryboats operated from the SIRT station at Tottenville to Perth Amboy.
At that time, the little boats were operated by SUNRISE FERRIES; until 1948, however, the ferry was operated by the SIRT, using walking beam sidewheel ferries, that dated back to the 1900's.
These boats, were, in fact, the very last such ferryboats to operate in or around New York Harbor.......
"NYO"
Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:27 pm; edited 6 times in total |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22536
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:10 am Post subject: |
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traildriver:
Dug this one out of my files; here is a VERY intense article on the B&O in New Jersey, and, of course, Staten Island.
B&O bus service to Jersey City is also mentioned here.
The very last SIRT "special" was for Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip in 1957; this is an interesting read just by itself!
QUITE an event for both the B&O and Staten Island, without a doubt (note the description of consists, movements, etc. !
Winston Churchill's trip on the SIRT/B&O is also mentioned here as well.
Enjoy!
"NYO"
http://jcrhs.org/B&O.html |
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traildriver
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 2458
Location: South Florida
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | traildriver:
Dug this one out of my files; here is a VERY intense article on the B&O in New Jersey, and, of course, Staten Island.
B&O bus service to Jersey City is also mentioned here.
The very last SIRT "special" was for Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip in 1957; this is an interesting read just by itself!
QUITE an event for both the B&O and Staten Island, without a doubt (note the description of consists, movements, etc. !
Winston Churchill's trip on the SIRT/B&O is also mentioned here as well.
Enjoy!
"NYO"
http://jcrhs.org/B&O.html |
Great find, NYO, thanks!
This quote really has my interest:
" For a short while in 1900 the SIRT operated a B&O connection passenger train from St. George to Plainfield, NJ"
I never heard that before...do you know any more about that? I had always read that except for those aforementioned specials, there was never any regular passenger trains over the Arthur Kill bridge... |
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traildriver
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 2458
Location: South Florida
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | Early days of B&O train connection bus operations to and from Manhattan.
This B&O motor coach station was located at the Chanin Building.......
http://cs.trains.com/ctr/f/3/t/230410.aspx |
Another great one, NYO...thanks!
Have you been there lately? I wonder if there are any traces of the bus terminal remaining to be seen, similar to the old Dixie Terminal (now the Carter Hotel parking garage where you can still see its turntable...
I'll have to take a look the next time I am at Grand Central Terminal... |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22536
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| traildriver wrote: | | NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | Early days of B&O train connection bus operations to and from Manhattan.
This B&O motor coach station was located at the Chanin Building.......
http://cs.trains.com/ctr/f/3/t/230410.aspx |
Another great one, NYO...thanks!
Have you been there lately? I wonder if there are any traces of the bus terminal remaining to be seen, similar to the old Dixie Terminal (now the Carter Hotel parking garage where you can still see its turntable...
I'll have to take a look the next time I am at Grand Central Terminal... |
traildriver:
I don't think I've been anywhere near the old B&O terminal at the Chanin Building, but, I might have been in the general area, many years ago.
Sadly, not a trace remains of the old B&O bus turntable at the former CNJ terminal at Jersey City; nor is there any vestiges remaining of the yard throat and the tow interlocking towers ("A" and "B")
The skeletal remains of this bus turntable vanished when construction for Liberty State Park began in the later 70's; blacktop for parking now covers the area of the bus turntable and approach tracks.
I have not been there since 1995, however; so much that would have been truly integral to the terminal's support facilities has long since been obliterated....... 
"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22536
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| traildriver wrote: | | NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | traildriver:
Dug this one out of my files; here is a VERY intense article on the B&O in New Jersey, and, of course, Staten Island.
B&O bus service to Jersey City is also mentioned here.
The very last SIRT "special" was for Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip in 1957; this is an interesting read just by itself!
QUITE an event for both the B&O and Staten Island, without a doubt (note the description of consists, movements, etc. !
Winston Churchill's trip on the SIRT/B&O is also mentioned here as well.
Enjoy!
"NYO"
http://jcrhs.org/B&O.html |
Great find, NYO, thanks!
This quote really has my interest:
" For a short while in 1900 the SIRT operated a B&O connection passenger train from St. George to Plainfield, NJ"
I never heard that before...do you know any more about that? I had always read that except for those aforementioned specials, there was never any regular passenger trains over the Arthur Kill bridge... |
traildriver:
You are more than welcome, my friend....I thought it might get your interest! 
Here again, the "family" operations of the CNJ/B&O/RDG become quite clear; through the 70's, this situation remained pretty much status quo.
What I can tell you, however, is that the B&O connection from Staten Island to New Jersey (interchange with the CNJ at Cranford Junction) went into service in 1889; passenger trains crossed the new span for the first time the following year (from the booklet "STATEN ISLAND RAPID TRANSIT"; Silver Leaf Models, 1965)
Beyond that, I am as much in the dark as you, I must admit.
Via the CNJ, the B&O offered a ferry connection (using a CNJ boat) between Jersey City and Whitehall Street.
This came to an end in 1901, when the CNJ ferry "MAUCH CHUNK" collided with the SIRT ferry "NORTHFIELD", just beyond the Whitehall slips; sadly, five lives were lost.
The City, not surprisingly, demanded that the B&O relinquish its ferries, and, also was forbidden to use the Whitehall slips.
This connection had been in place for the convenience of B&O passengers, who could transfer under cover at Whitehall Street from the ferry directly to several Manhattan El lines (which were electrified by 1903)........
"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22536
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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traildriver:
On the "GENERAL BUS FORUM" (Page 4), I have an old thread, "B&O BUSES/BUS TURNTABLE, JERSEY CITY (1950's)"; this thread is a few years old, and features OUTSTANDING photos of the B&O buses in Jersey City as well as in Manhattan (other buses are also seen in one Manhattan view!)
The photos were provided by our late friend and Most Honorable Bus Expert, Mr. Linsky; check out these great photos....they truly bring back the colorful era of B&O buses!
"NYO"
Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:05 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22536
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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Even though the graceful SCENICRUISER sits at the end of a line of humble Old Looks, she still, nevertheless, exudes that distinct, tangible aura of timelessness.......what a historic bus collection these buses would make today!
http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?607
(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org) |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22536
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting notes:
1):According to an ERIE-LACKAWANNA RAILROAD through train timetable (October, 1966), EASTERN GREYHOUND provided service between the E-L station at Youngstown and Cleveland.
This I find interesting, as the trains themselves ("THE PHOEBE SNOW" and the "LAKE CITIES") still stopped at Cleveland (CUT); at that time, both aforementioned trains carried Hoboken-Youngstown sleepers.
2): I just dug out a 9/9/98 VERMONT TRANSIT LINES timetable; the cover is graced with a Van Hool, sporting the "Running Dog" under "VERMONT".
Below this picture : "DIRECT CONNECTING SERVICE WITH GREYHOUND".
"NYO" |
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traildriver
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 2458
Location: South Florida
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:50 am Post subject: |
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NYO...
The Erie-Lackawanna mainline did not go through Cleveland on its Hoboken-Chicago route....the Cleveland line branched off the mainline at Warren, Oh.
The mainline continued west via Akron and Marion. So while they may have had thru cars from Hoboken to Cleveland, they were switched off at either Youngstown or Warren.
Amtrak's Lake Shore Limited, and Capitol Limited, stop at the lakefront station. The very last passenger train to use Cleveland Union Terminal, other than the RTA rapid transit and light rail, was the sole remaining Erie commuter train to/from Youngstown in the Conrail era... |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22536
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| traildriver wrote: | NYO...
The Erie-Lackawanna mainline did not go through Cleveland on its Hoboken-Chicago route....the Cleveland line branched off the mainline at Warren, Oh.
The mainline continued west via Akron and Marion. So while they may have had thru cars from Hoboken to Cleveland, they were switched off at either Youngstown or Warren.
Amtrak's Lake Shore Limited, and Capitol Limited, stop at the lakefront station. The very last passenger train to use Cleveland Union Terminal, other than the RTA rapid transit and light rail, was the sole remaining Erie commuter train to/from Youngstown in the Conrail era... |
traildriver:
You are correct; though I am a lifelong E-F fan, I totally forgot about this....thanks for the heads-up!
Speaking of the CUT, recall, too, the electric locomotives that later traveled east to haul NYC trains in and out of GCT.
ConRail discontinued the former E-L commuter trains in early 1977; these were Trains #'s 28 and 29 (by that time, ex-PHOEBE SNOW cars had replaced the older equipment)
This was also the last non-push pull diesel passenger service operated by the former Erie-Lackawanna; E-8's provided the power for the Youngstown commuter runs.
I've read that most (but not all) passengers on those trains in its later years were mostly E-L pass holders; the last trains, however, were jammed with rail enthusiasts.
Let's hope that "The Hound" brought at least some of these guys to the last trains!
"NYO"
Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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traildriver
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 2458
Location: South Florida
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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I used to enjoy Cleveland Union Terminal very much, whenever I visited Cleveland. One time I even splurged to stay at the then Sheraton-Cleveland hotel, connected to the Terminal Tower.
As far as the old CUT electric locomotives... I got the chance to ride the cab of one of those "P-Motor's" from Grand Central Terminal up to Croton-Harmon. Quite a thrill ride...they rode 'rough'. At Harmon, I switched to an E-8, for the remainder of the trip up to Albany. I remarked to the engineer at what a difference in ride from the P-Motor. He gave me a big grin and told me that now I was riding in a Cadillac...  |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22536
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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traildriver:
You are a VERY lucky man, indeed, my friend, to have experience such classic cab rides!
Talking about rails and GREYHOUND reminded me of GREYHOUND calling at Penn Station in Newark; The Hound has been at Penn Station since the station opened in 1937.
GREYHOUND also, for decades, had a "storefront depot" at Journal Square in Jersey City, into the 1970's; though I remember the station very well, in all honesty, I have no recollection at all of seeing a GREYHOUND bus parked out front (Sip Avenue), just across the street from the PSNJ terminal (now demolished) and the concourse leading to the H&M/PATH tubes..................
"NYO" |
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