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MaBSTOA Roster (9/62)
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Q65A



Age: 60
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 1652
Location: Central NJ

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And that is a nice Mack B series wrecker!
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 51
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 257
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:36 pm    Post subject: Re: MaBSTOA Roster (9/62) Reply with quote

Q65A wrote:
I found this info on my computer this afternoon.
I don't recall where I got it, but it describes depot assignments for MaBSTOA in September 1962 (the year that agency was formed):

132 St - 4507 (25); 4509 (82); 5106 (66); 5301 (34)
Jackson Hts - 4509 (1); 5102 (1); 5104 (50)
12th St - 4510 (61)
54 St - 4507 (62); 4509 (63); 4510 (86); 5301 (5)
100 St - 4506 (57); 4507 (67); 4509 (103)
146 St - 4506 (45); 4507 (34); 4509 (110)5106 (25); 5301 (26)
Amsterdam - 5301 (25); C-45 (143); C-47 (15); C-49 (39)
2d Ave - 4506 (31); 4507 (76); 4509 (12); 5106 (40); C-45 (13); C-49 (10)
West Farms - 4507 (182); 5301 (10)
K'bridge - 4506 (80); 4507 (123); 4509 (49); 5104 (10); 5106 (30); 5301 (20)

Total buses - 1911

Now, seeing this list, I have to wonder: Were those 5301's assigned to the respective depots at the point Fifth Avenue Coach Lines (for what were originally 1-5 and 3101-3160) and Surface Transit (for 6-10 and 3161-3210) first received them in 1960, or was there some jumbling up along the way?

This is important because in terms of route assignments, dating back to 1950 New York City Omnibus had these routes assigned thus:
- 12th Street: 12, 13, 14
- 54th Street: 5, 6, 8, 15, 16, 21
- 100th Street: 1, 2, 11, 17, 18, 19, 20
- 146th Street: 3, 4, 7, 10, TB
But by the time this pic was taken in 1960 . . .

. . . I have to wonder if Fifth Avenue Coach Lines, in the last two years of private operation of these routes, had changed the route assignments for their NYCO Division 1 and 2 lines from 100th to 146th Street (which makes one wonder if they also switched TB to 100th). That's because of the issue of there being no 5301's at 100th but 26 of those initial 'New Looks' at 146th. Plus the matter of 3 and 4 being eliminated that July, and 1 and 2 being extended to 146th and Lenox.

Then there's the matter of route assignments over different periods of time. The 1970 list was previously shown here. A late 1963 front rollsign had this lineup (obviously the 132nd Street and Amsterdam sets of routes weren't included as they had their own front rollsigns):
3 - FIFTH AVENUE
15 - JACKSON H'GTS - QUEENSBORO B'DG
15 - FIFTH AVE - QUEENSBORO BDG
16 - ELMHURST X'TOWN - 82-BAXTER-B'WAY
15 - LIMITED STOPS
6 - BROADWAY - AVE OF AMERICAS
6 - 72nd ST CROSSTOWN
11 - AMSTERDAM & 9th AVES
12 - SPRING & DELANCEY STS
13 - 8th ST CROSSTOWN
14 - 14th ST. XTOWN VIA AVE A
14 - 14th ST. XTOWN VIA AVE. D
17 - 79th ST. CROSSTOWN
18 - 86th ST. CROSSTOWN
19 - 96th ST. CROSSTOWN
20 - 116th ST XTOWN
TRI-BORO BRIDGE
101 - 3rd-LEX - AMSTERDAM
107 - 106th ST. XTOWN VIA-110 ST.-5 AVE
NO PASSENGERS
15 - 23rd ST CROSSTOWN
16 - 34th ST CROSSTOWN
20 - 57th ST CROSSTOWN
21 - HOUSTON ST & AVE. C
103 - 59th ST CROSSTOWN
106 - 42nd ST CROSSTOWN
7 - BROADWAY-COL - LENOX AVES
1 - PARK & MADISON VIA-135 ST.
2 - PARK & MADISON VIA-116 ST.
10 - 8th AVE. - CENT. PK. WEST
30 - 149th ST. CROSSTOWN

The window of production would have been between November and December 1963 (November when the 6 Broadway line's entire NB route was shifted to Sixth Avenue, Dec. 22 when the Jackson Heights depot [where the 15 Jackson Heights and 16 Elmhurst lines had been based] closed, and the two routes shifted to 54th Street), and seems to have been grouped in order of routes assigned by depot. I can only presume 15 Jackson Heights and 16 Elmhurst were still at Jackson Heights depot at that point. Next is the two 6's. Then it appears that as of that point in time, 12th Street was home to the 11, 12, 13, 14(A) and 14(D) routes; 100th Street, to 17, 18, 19, 20 116th Street, TB, 101 and 107; 54th Street, to 15 23rd Street, 16 34th Street, 20 57th Street, 21, 103 and 106; and 146th Street, to 7, 1, 2, 10 and (Bx)30.
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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 64
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 383

PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posted here for your studies is the list of buses acquired by condemnation by the newly created agency, Manhattan and Bronx Surface Transit Operating Authority.


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SURFACE.JPG
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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 64
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 383

PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the list of buses that were renumbered by MaBSTOA during April 22, 1963 followed by a list of buses borrowed from the TA and the newly acquired buses by MaBSTOA


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TA & OA.JPG
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TA & OA.JPG


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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 51
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 257
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It says something that it took a year from the creation of MaBSTOA to renumber old Surface buses - but 11 years from such bus renumberings to renumber certain bus routes in Manhattan, Queens and the Bronx.
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 51
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 257
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:20 pm    Post subject: Re: MaBSTOA Roster (9/62) Reply with quote

Q65A wrote:
I found this info on my computer this afternoon. I don't recall where I got it, but it describes depot assignments for MaBSTOA in September 1962 (the year that agency was formed):

132 St - 4507 (25); 4509 (82); 5106 (66); 5301 (34)
Jackson Hts - 4509 (1); 5102 (1); 5104 (50)
12th St - 4510 (61)
54 St - 4507 (62); 4509 (63); 4510 (86); 5301 (5)
100 St - 4506 (57); 4507 (67); 4509 (103)
146 St - 4506 (45); 4507 (34); 4509 (110)5106 (25); 5301 (26)
Amsterdam - 5301 (25); C-45 (143); C-47 (15); C-49 (39)
2d Ave - 4506 (31); 4507 (76); 4509 (12); 5106 (40); C-45 (13); C-49 (10)
West Farms - 4507 (182); 5301 (10)
K'bridge - 4506 (80); 4507 (123); 4509 (49); 5104 (10); 5106 (30); 5301 (20)

Total buses - 1911

In September 1962, based on the history of individual route assignments year by year as in the May 1972 Motor Coach article, the following routes would have been assigned to the following depots, in the same order:
132nd Street:
2 - Fifth and Seventh Avenues
3 - Fifth and Convent or St. Nicholas Avenues
5 - Fifth Avenue-Riverside Drive
Jackson Heights:
15 - Fifth Avenue/Queensboro Bridge/Jackson Heights
16 - Elmhurst Crosstown
12th Street:
12 - Spring and Delancey Streets Crosstown
13 - 8th Street Crosstown
14 - 14th Street Crosstown (via Avenues A or D)
54th Street:
5 - Sixth Avenue
6 - 72nd Street Crosstown
6 - Broadway and Seventh Avenue
15 - 23rd Street Crosstown
16 - 34th Street Crosstown
20 - 57th Street Crosstown
21 - Houston Street and Avenue C Crosstown
100th Street:
1 - Park and Madison Avenues (via 135th Street)
2 - Park and Madison Avenues (via 116th Street)
11 - Ninth and Amsterdam Avenues
17 - 79th Street Crosstown
18 - 86th Street Crosstown
19 - 96th Street Crosstown
20 - 116th Street Crosstown
101 - Third, Lexington and Amsterdam Avenues (split with Amsterdam)
146th Street:
7 - Broadway, Columbus and Lenox Avenues
10 - Eighth Avenue and Central Park West
TB - Triborough Bridge
Amsterdam:
100 - Broadway-Kingsbridge
101 - Third, Lexington and Amsterdam Avenues (split with 100th Street)
103 - 59th Street Crosstown
104 - Broadway
106 - 42nd Street Crosstown
Second Avenue:
1 - Concourse-138th Street
2 - Concourse Hub
5 - Bruckner Boulevard
6 - Throggs Neck
6A - Locust Point
6B - Throggs Neck Stadium
7 - Boston Road
8 - Williamsbridge Road
9 - Eastchester Road
12 - City Island-Fordham
12A - Pelham Parkway
12B - Orchard Beach
13 - Castle Hill Avenue
14 - Edenwald Avenue
14A - Edenwald Shuttle
15 - Gun Hill Road
15A - Hillside Homes
16 - Webster Avenue
17 - Allerton Avenue
18 - Macombs Road
22 - Country Club
23 - Crosby-Layton Avenues
49 - Highbridge
50 - Freedomland (summer route)
West Farms:
21 - Pelham Bay Park
25 - Morris Avenue
26 - Boston Road-Morris Park Avenue
27 - Clason Point
28 - Williamsbridge
29 - Willis Avenue
31 - Southern Boulevard
32 - St. Ann's Avenue
33 - 138th Street Crosstown
40 - Tremont Avenue
42 - Westchester Avenue
Kingsbridge:
3 - Prospect Avenue
4 - Fifth and Fort Washington Avenues*
4 - Jerome-Bainbridge
10 - Riverdale Avenue
10A - Spuyten Duyvil
10B - Fieldston
11 - 170th Street Crosstown
19 - 207th Street Crosstown
20 - Bronx-Van Cortlandt
24 - Bailey Avenue
30 - 149th Street Crosstown
34 - 163rd Street Crosstown
35 - 167th Street Crosstown
36 - 180th Street Crosstown
37 - Ogden Avenue
38 - University Avenue
41 - Webster Avenue-White Plains Road

The routes assigned to Second Avenue were transferred to Coliseum depot in the Bronx effective Nov. 5, 1962 (and the Second Avenue depot, at 126th Street, then was repurposed as the depot for the TA's Manhattan routes 1 Madison-Chambers, 3 49th-50th Crosstown, 7 65th Street Crosstown, 11 York Avenue, 13 Journal Building and 15 First and Second Avenues); that same day 103 and 106 were transferred to 54th Street.
* Route 4 - Fifth and Fort Washington Avenues went to 132nd Street after Sept. 29, 1963.

At least one of these assignments wasn't even "original." Route 2 - Fifth and Seventh Avenues, at the point service resumed on July 1, 1962, was originally out of Kingsbridge before being transferred to 132nd Street on July 13 of that year.
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 51
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 257
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaBSTOA 15 wrote:
Regarding the 1965 listing, I have the following

NOTE... TDH 4509s and Mack C-49s were still on the roster

Checking the history of MaBSTOA's routes towards the end of the May 1972 article, the route assignments would have been gauged thus (one month prior to the Fifth/Madison one-way conversion, FACO Division 2's renumbering as 2A, and its transfer to 146th Street):

Kingsbridge (all prefices Bx-): 2, 4, 10, 10B, 19, 20, 24, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 41
Coliseum (all prefices Bx-): 1, 3, 5, 5A, 6, 6A, 6B, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, 12A, 12B, 13, 14, 14A, 15, 15A, 15B, 16, 17, 18, 22, 23, 49
West Farms (all prefices Bx-): 21, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 31, 32, 33, 40, 42
12th Street: 12**, 13**, 14(A)**, 14(D)**
100th Street: 6*, 17**, 18**, 19**, 20**, 101, 107**, TB**
54th Street: 6**, 15*, 15**, 16*, 16**, 20*, 21**, 103, 106
132nd Street: 2*, 3*, 4*, 5*, 11**
146th Street: 1**, 2**, 7**, 10**
Amsterdam: 100, 104, Bx-30
* FACO Division
** NYCO Division
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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 64
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 383

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It amazes me how the city took the TDH-5301s acquired from Fifth Avenue Coach Lines and Surface Transit and updated them to meet OA standards such as...

a) moving the side destination sign box from behind the front door to just ahead of the rear door. Leaving a clear standee window in the former location of the side destination box.

b) change the drivers stanchion from a slight curve to s straight stanchion (on some buses, not all).

c) moving the tow eyes from above to below the front bumper.
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