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MaBSTOA Roster (9/62)
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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 63
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jackie in the driver's seat!


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frankie



Age: 70
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Location: St. Peters, Mo.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaBSTOA 15 wrote:


Note the solid rubber tire truck on the left of the picture.


I photo shopped and brightened the image. Anyone know what that solid tired vehicle is? Looks like a rear view of a hotel hack.

Frankie



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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 63
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 290

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to the February 1969 issue of Motor Coach Age on New York City Omnibus... the following is stated on page 17...

"New York City Omnibus was unusual among large transit properties in that buses were traditionally assigned not merely to garages but actually to individual routes. In later years, the route assignments were stencilledn on the windshields. The oldest tabulation available is dated December 28. 1950, and is reproduced here (in the magazine)...

#2969 was assigned to the 100 Street Depot and to route 18, 86th Street Crosstown!

The Honeymooners did not debut till 1955. Therefore, am sure 2969 was reassigned to route 1/2 Madison Avenue out of the same depot.

The Motor Coach Age issue of May 1972 on the First 10 Years of Mabstoa lists the following routes operating out of the 100 Street Depot:

6 -72 St Crosstown; 17 -79 St Crosstown; 18 -86 St Crosstown; 19 -96 St Crosstown; 101 -Third-Lexington & Amsterdam; 101A -Third-Lexington & Lenox; 107 -106 St Crosstown

The route 2A -Fifth-Madison & Seventh Ave was now operating out of the 146 Street Depot.
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 50
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaBSTOA 15 wrote:
According to the February 1969 issue of Motor Coach Age on New York City Omnibus... the following is stated on page 17...

"New York City Omnibus was unusual among large transit properties in that buses were traditionally assigned not merely to garages but actually to individual routes. In later years, the route assignments were stencilledn on the windshields. The oldest tabulation available is dated December 28. 1950, and is reproduced here (in the magazine)...

#2969 was assigned to the 100 Street Depot and to route 18, 86th Street Crosstown!

The Honeymooners did not debut till 1955. Therefore, am sure 2969 was reassigned to route 1/2 Madison Avenue out of the same depot.

The Motor Coach Age issue of May 1972 on the First 10 Years of Mabstoa lists the following routes operating out of the 100 Street Depot:

6 -72 St Crosstown; 17 -79 St Crosstown; 18 -86 St Crosstown; 19 -96 St Crosstown; 101 -Third-Lexington & Amsterdam; 101A -Third-Lexington & Lenox; 107 -106 St Crosstown

The route 2A -Fifth-Madison & Seventh Ave was now operating out of the 146 Street Depot.

A few points:
- The pictures of Gleason and his co-stars inside 2969 were apparently taken on Aug. 22, 1955. The bus was parked right outside the Park Sheraton (Gleason's base at the time) on 56th Street just west of Seventh Avenue.
- The 100th Street depot's route assignation list described above would have been between 1969 and 1972. As of April 1968, these routes came out of 100th:
- 6 - 72nd Street Crosstown
- 17 - 79th Street Crosstown
- 18 - 86th Street Crosstown
- 19 - 96th Street Crosstown
- 20 - 116th Street Crosstown
- 101 - Third-Lexington & Amsterdam
- 107 - 106th Street Crosstown
- TB - Triboro Bridge
The 101A first went into service March 2, 1969, as: a) a replacement/rerouting of the 2 - Fifth-Madison & Lenox Avenues line, and b) a de facto revival (albeit with major differences in its route path south of 24th Street) of the old NYCO / FACL - NYCO Division 4 - Lexington & Lenox Avenues line that ran from 1936 to 1960.

Meanwhile, 146th Street had these routes assigned as of the same 1968 period:
- 1 - Fourth & Madison
- 2 - Fifth-Madison & Lenox
- 2A - Fifth-Madison & Seventh
- 7 - Broadway-Columbus & Lenox
- 10 - Eighth Avenue-Central Park West
(TB would be reassigned to 146th in 1969 after the demise of the 2 and launch of the 101A)
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 50
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:23 am    Post subject: Re: MaBSTOA Roster (9/62) Reply with quote

Q65A wrote:
I found this info on my computer this afternoon.
I don't recall where I got it, but it describes depot assignments for MaBSTOA in September 1962 (the year that agency was formed):

132 St - 4507 (25); 4509 (82); 5106 (66); 5301 (34)
Jackson Hts - 4509 (1); 5102 (1); 5104 (50)
12th St - 4510 (61)
54 St - 4507 (62); 4509 (63); 4510 (86); 5301 (5)
100 St - 4506 (57); 4507 (67); 4509 (103)
146 St - 4506 (45); 4507 (34); 4509 (110)5106 (25); 5301 (26)
Amsterdam - 5301 (25); C-45 (143); C-47 (15); C-49 (39)
2d Ave - 4506 (31); 4507 (76); 4509 (12); 5106 (40); C-45 (13); C-49 (10)
West Farms - 4507 (182); 5301 (10)
K'bridge - 4506 (80); 4507 (123); 4509 (49); 5104 (10); 5106 (30); 5301 (20)

Total buses - 1911

2d Avenue - was that the depot that later passed to the TA for their Manhattan Division? In any case, this explains why some routes wouldn't get New Looks until after the 1963, '64, '65 and '66 orders; and that as of that 1962 date, only six of the depots had the "new kids on the block."

I'm curious as to the original depot assignments of the first batch of buses (3301-3555 in the 5303 configuration) ordered and built for MaBSTOA in 1963. I know a lot went to Bronx depots to enable a mass scrapping of the most dilapidated of the Surface fleet; but a few I venture made their way to Manhattan "at the time" (such as Rts. 106 42d St. Crosstown and 104 Broadway). Didn't a few hold down some Fifth Avenue routes (i.e. assigned out of 132 St) in the last few months before the September 1963 closure of Washington Square to bus traffic?
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 50
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm also curious as to the original assignments - and quantity (by bus numbers on the front, sides and back) - of the four orders of the 'New Look' TDH-5303's for MaBSTOA. Gauging from pictures I've seen that had been taken prior to the 1972 opening of the Hudson Pier depot, it would appear that the 1963 set (3301-3555) would have gone to the 132nd Street, Amsterdam, Coliseum, Kingsbridge and West Farms depots (and probably 12th Street?, given some holding down the 14 route that was assigned out of there); the 1964 order (5201-5525) to 54th Street, 100th Street and 146th Street, with the ten batwings (after 5516) scattered among Amsterdam, 132nd, and 146th; non-batwinged 1965 buses (6401-6700) to Coliseum, Amsterdam, West Farms and Kingsbridge, and batwings (6701-6900) to 146th Street, 54th Street, 100th Street and 132nd Street; and of the 1966-67 order (8301-8780), a few seemed to have gone to Coliseum, and the rest to Manhattan: Amsterdam, 100th Street, 54th Street, 132nd Street, and 146th Street. This much I could gauge as to which numbers went where (if any holes or inaccuracies in this list, please advise):
1963
- 132nd Street: 3301-~3351
- Coliseum: ~3359-~3431
- West Farms: ~3382, ~3397
- Amsterdam: ~3430-~3459
- Kingsbridge: ~3456, ~3471
- 12th Street(?): ~3491-~3539
1964
- 146th Street: ~5208-~5245, ~5479-5515, ~5524
- 54th Street: ~5250-~5352
- 100th Street: ~5354-~5427
- Amsterdam: ~5519
- 132nd Street: ~5520-~5522
1965 (batwinged and non-batwinged listed separately in this case)
- Kingsbridge: 6401-~6511
- West Farms: ~6521-~6616
- Amsterdam: ~6620-~6641
- 132nd Street: ~6642-~6651
- Coliseum: ~6660-~6700
- 146th Street: ~6701-~6737
- 54th Street: ~6739-~6777
- Coliseum: ~6779-~6793
- 132nd Street: ~6796-~6830
- 100th Street: ~6831-~6873
1966-67
- Coliseum: 8301-~8331
- Amsterdam: ~8373-~8458
- 100th Street: ~8460-~8545
- 54th Street: ~8546-~8620
- 132nd Street: ~8621-~8690
- 146th Street: ~8699-8780
And quite a few, especially the 1964 and '65 orders if some photos are any indication, had outmoded side signs that were rendered obsolete upon the 1966 one-way conversions of Fifth and Madison Avenues. Wonder how many 2A's, for instance, read on the side '2 - Madison Ave via 116 St' when running northbound and '2 - 5th & 7th Avenues' on southbound treks (as opposed to the '67 AC batwings that correctly indicated '2A - 5th & Madison via Seventh Ave'); I wouldn't be surprised if the ex-NYCO 2, in its last three years of existence up to the launch of 3rd-Lexington-Lenox 101A, had the same incorrect indicators on their uptown and downtown trips, of the type that led to some assuming both routes had been combined into one (even on '67 buses' sides reading '2 - 5th & Madison via Lenox' on the ex-NYCO 2), and contributing to the ex-FACCo 2 being rebranded 2A in summer '66. (And then there was the matter of both 2's being assigned, by 1966, out of 146th Street.)
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MaBSTOA 15



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posted below is the MaBSTOA bus assignments by depot, fleet numbers, and models. The routes assigned to the depots is also noted. The listing appeared in the 1972 issue of Motor Coach Age dealing with MaBSTOA's first 10 years.
The date of the listing is as of February 1970.



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MaBSTOA 15



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

... the listing continues


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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 63
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding the 1965 listing, I have the following

NOTE... TDH 4509s and Mack C-49s were still on the roster



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Hart Bus



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for posting the interesting information.
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aha. So theoretically, 1963 TDH-5303 buses within the 3485-3555 range would have been the ones traipsing through Washington Square Park in the 2 or so months prior to the September 1963 closure thereof to all bus traffic (we know 3 and 5 were/are assigned out of 132nd Street; but what would 2/2A/M2 have come out of then?).

Interesting to see how some of them were moved (and what older buses were retired) between the December 1965 and February 1970 timelines. But it does open a window (ha ha) as to what came from where, in terms of figuring out pics taken in those days.

As well, what would have been the code for the 12th Street depot on the Johnson/Keene (or Grant or whatever) fare boxes? I know from OTS and OFS and OHS and FFS and AMS and such, plus the subsequent HUD for Hudson Pier . . .
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MaBSTOA 15



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

12 Street Depot, perhaps "TWS"???
BTW, MaBSTOA never had Grant fareboxes. They had Johnson (later Keene) models "D" (motorized coffee grinders) and K-25, first with a return coin drawer, then safety vault (exact fares) and finally vacumn bases still used today.
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking either 'TWS' or 'TS'. But now that you mention it, Johnson/Keene was ubiquitous on MaBSTOA bus rolling stock.
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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 63
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grants were used by Triboro and Green Bus. Not sure about Jamaica Buses but I think they also had Grants. When they went to exact fare I remember Triboro put what appeared to be a homebuilt vaults under the Grants and had the coin changer blocked out. Then they switched to K25 with vaults. Weird to see Triboro using Keene boxes. I think Green also did the same.

Steinway and Queens Transit used Main fare boxes.

Fifth Avenue and Surface had on their TDH 5301s/TDH 5106s and Mack C-49s Grants.

What became of the GFI electronic boxes that replaced the Keenes on the first set of RTS buses used by MaBSTOA & NYCTA before the switch to Cubic?? (the vacumn bases were kept for the Cubic boxes)
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at the December 1965 list of buses in action, makes me wonder:
- Since the "Jackie Gleason bus," 2969, and its brethren were still active at 'OHS' alongside the Newer Look kids on the block - and especially given how that depot's allotment of the batwinged 1965 order (6831-6875) was already on the property - I presume the 4509's in question remained up to the 1967 delivery of the A/C batwings (of which 100th was allotted 8471-8545), then were retired and subsequently scrapped.
- At 146th Street where 4509's 2838-2933 were still on property, I presume they as well as the Newer Looks from between 1963-65 were all "inaccurate" with respect to the two #2 routes upon the one-way conversions of Fifth and Madison in January 1966 (i.e. both reading '2 - Madison Ave via 116 St' on NB runs and '2 - 5th & 7th Avenues' on SB runs); only the batwinged A/C's (of which OFS got 8696-8780) that came in Jan-Feb 1967 would have accurately read '2 - 5th & Madison via Lenox' for the ex-NYCO route and '2A - 5th & Madison via Seventh Ave' on the ex-FACCo. (And that such arrivals would have doomed those 4509's.)
- Below shows early on in the existence of 101A, around City Hall, one of the A/C batwings (#8483, from 100th Street) on a 101A run, being towed from City Hall by a MaBSTOA tow truck - yet on the side, '2 - 5th & Madison via Lenox' which shows just how that earlier route had been transmogrified.



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