BusTalk

[Mr. Linsky]

Thanks to Dave Thomas of GMOldLookBus for the additional information on the history of GM's EXP-305 seen below;

"EXP-305 had it's beginnings in the "City by the Bay", San Francisco in 1953. According the book, "Inside Muni", by John McKane and Anthony Perles, a city ballot proposition to buy new buses was of major interest to GM. At that time, San Francisco Municipal Railway (Muni) was the only major transit property in the country that never purchased new GM buses. EXP-305, painted in Muni colors and numbered 5105, operated in revenue service from 9/30/53 to 12/31/53. It operated on the 14 Mission line as well as the 15 3rd-Kearny, 71 Haight-Noriega and 72 Haight-Sunset bus lines.

Unfortunately, the city ballot proposition failed and there would be no new GM buses purchased by San Francisco until 1969.

After finishing it's tour of duty in San Francisco, EXP-305 was demonstrated in other cities. Strange but true, EXP-305 spent some time in Omaha, Nebraska where it operated in Muni colors (minus the Muni logo and decals)."

Dave

[MaBSTOA 15]

More on TDH-5105 EXP 305…

This bus began its career as TDH-5103 Serial 001 in 1950. It went to GM Engineering and became the TDH-5105 EXP-305 when the leaf springs were removed and structural modifications performed in order to mount bellows for the air suspension. Therfore it became the prototype for the 5105 production series.

It originally had jack knife rear doors, tear drop with grill engine air intakes above the last window on either side of the coach and Thermo-Matic equipment. In this configuration it went on a demo tour including Muni and several other cities.

During the Summer of 1956 it was returned to GM when air conditioning was added. The rear door, air intakes and Thermo-Matic remained. With this a/c configuration it toured New York City as #3200 for Fifth Avenue Coach. It worked on the number 5-Riverside Drive and 15-Jackson Heights as well as other routes.

It also toured with D.C. Transit. In fact the color scheme was copied by D.C. Transit and applied to their old and new buses.

It finally ended its days (August 1958) with New Orleans Public Service (NOPSI) as fleet number 1967. Before arriving at NOPSI, the rear door was changed to a push out style (with glass panes on the upper part only) the tear drop air intakes were changed to the half moon style used on the 3714/4512/5106/5105 transit models (the TDH 4801s did not have these air intake).

The biggest change was the Thermo-matic equipment housed above the driver’s head was removed!

See the link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOPSI-NEW-ORLEANS-LA-GM-OLD-LOOK-BUS-1967-INT-ORIGINAL-COLOR-SLIDE-/111108336540?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19de92ab9c&nma=true&si=9XHJ9LyJASQJ%252FkYylG3OiLocT6w%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557#ht_91wt_932

[buslist]

[Mr. Linsky]

buslist,

You're absolutely right about the absence of fresh air intakes for the 4801 Diesels and I think it had to do with California emissions control rules at the time although I do stand corrected on that point.

It was not that uncommon on paired window GM Diesels and I have seen other fleets so configured out side of California.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[Mr. Linsky]

Seen in 1965 at the company's Garden Avenue Yard in Mount Vernon, New York is fleet #77 - a 1946 36 passenger GM Coach Model TDH 3610 and one of 35 likenesses numbered between 50 to 84 operating for the Westchester Street Transportation Company division of Fifth Avenue Coach Lines, Inc.

Aside from having an updated bumper which would not be considered an oddity, #77 shows the handy work of old Surface Transportation mechanics with its new 'Mack' hardware and signals under the windshield (something that has been seen on one or two Surface 4507's in the past).

But the real peculiarity here is the way that the destination sign has been divided into two distinctly separate frames which, BTW, was not the way this bus came from the factory!

#77 is signed for the 'L' line to Hudson Park on the river in Yonkers.

Photo courtesy of 'Vintage-Vault75' and is available on eBay as item # 181172673490.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[frankie]

I guess in this case, GM stands for General Mack.

At first you don't notice the changes, but when you study it closely, the more apparent the changes - especially when those add ons are from a different bus source.

Great photo Mr. L.

Frankie

[Mr. Linsky]

Seen sometime in 1958 as it passes Federal Reserve Bank Plaza at Broadway and Locust Street in downtown St. Louis, is fleet # 4873 - a 1941 40 passenger Yellow Coach Model TD- 4006 and one sixty numbered between 4840 and 4899 purchased originally by St. Louis Public Service but being operated by National City Lines at the time the image was taken.

There are a multitude of oddities with # 4873 not the least of which being that it had to be among the oldest Yellow 'Old Looks' to have ever been retrofitted with Air Conditioning, and apparently there were many others in the fleet so equipped as seen in the boast along the roof duct reading 'Largest Fleet Air Cooled Buses'

As has been pointed out to this writer in an earlier post, the TD-4006's, built specially for St. Louis, were known as 'PCC Buses' because they featured the old fashioned wind down windows of the famous trolleys as well as large 'Golden Glow' headlamps but not the ornate looking front ends of the company's custom made sister TG 3603's.

Note that our focus is made of thin steal panels in place of aluminum which was needed for the war effort and is evidenced by the double set of 'side swipe' moldings carried at wheel well level.

BTW; I owned a Harley Three Wheeler just like the one pictured that I bought at Police auction back when (it was the only motorcycle my wife felt would be safe enough for me to drive!).

Photo courtesy of 'Vintage-Vault75' and is available on eBay as item # 171071789307.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[frankie]

Market Street Railways of San Francisco took delivery of two of the very first Yellow TG-3601 old looks on June 21, 1940. Numbered 121 and 122, these had serial numbers 002 and 003. Pictured below is 122 taken just after delivery.

Very unusual for old looks were the factory installed roof baggage racks for suburban charter use complete with full length ladders at the rear. Looking closely at the photos, I would venture a guess that these actually had a roof well to hold the luggage, though I may stand to be corrected. Whether roof racks has ever been duplicated afterwards is not known, but these buses must have been a sight to behold.

Note the unusual roof antenna that swoops over the destination sign. The purpose is unknown, but it could be have been used for 2-way radio communication.

Frankie

Photos courtesy of Charles Smallwood from his book "The White Front Cars of San Francisco" and used for educational purposes

[buslist]

[frankie]

[Old Look 4007]

Frankie,

Thanks so much for posting the pictures of the Yellow 3601 with the special roof rack.

I am always checking the different types of rear engine screens and placement of tail lights.

Great show.

Old Look 4007 (Jeff)

[Mr. Linsky]

frankie,

Your Market Street Railway #122 find is absolutely fabulous and probably rates among the top five oddity contestants so far!

Since the photos are at factory before delivery, it is assumed that it was a special order and a rare one at that!

It may be that the luggage area on the roof was constructed similarly to those of the Yellow Parlor Cars of the era and that the antenna, which appears to be temporary, may have only been for radio contact between convoy chauffeurs during delivery.

I doubt that it would have been used for anything else although I'm open to suggestions.

Many regards,

Mr. 'L'

[Mr. Linsky]

[Mr. Linsky]

The bus seen below must have been at least 36 years old when this shot of what is said to have been Suburban Transit Corporation of New Jersey equipment was taken in 1979.

Freshly painted with plywood covering the windows and padlocks securing the doors along with a missing rear tire, we espy what appears to be a forty passenger Yellow Coach built sometime between 1941 and 1944 as evidenced by the double set of side swipe moldings between the wheel wells to protect the thinner steel body panels that replaced aluminum during the war.

Considering the New Jersey factor and that PSNJ had a stable of like equipment, it may be where this bus originated.

Coach U.S.A. eventually took Suburban Transit under its umbrella and our focus may be parked at one of its facilities as detected by the reflection seen in the green body paint of a white bus with the familiar red, white and blue stripes of the parent company.

Note the surplus rear bus wheel used as a pedestal for the shuttle bus sign - an old bus company trick and usually filled with concrete to discourage theft.

Photo courtesy of 'Vintage-Vault75' and is available on eBay as item #181177678195.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[Mr. Linsky]

Pictured at an unknown time and location is fleet #118 - a 1947 44 passenger GM Coach Model TD-4507 and one of five likenesses numbered 116 to 118 and 134 and 135 delivered to the De Camp Interstate Transit Company division of De Camp Bus Lines, Inc. of Clifton, New Jersey in February of that year.

#118 and its siblings were extremely rare 4507's in that they were an all transit configuration with the exception of standee glasses which allowed for the installation of parcel racks at the request of customers on the company's burgeoning New York commuter routes.

Of note are New Jersey's then mandated passenger safety split sashes and Michigan Markers.

De Camp Bus Lines, a family owned business and one of the nations oldest transportation companies, had its beginning in 1870 with a single stage coach serving local northern New Jersey townships and grew to become a major player in daily commuter & charter services in the New York metropolitan area.

Photo courtesy of the Motor Bus Society.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York