BusTalk

[frankie]

[Mr. Linsky]

fishbowl,

This is a little something more on the D900 that I had written some time back in the 'Bus Nostalgia' thread (page 14) here at BusTalk;

Enjoy

Pictured below is fleet # D900 – an experimental 1950 GM Model TDH 4509 (ser# 0699) and delivered to Public Service Coordinated Transport of New Jersey in May of that year.

This bus was not your father’s Oldsmobile (so to speak!). The D900 (dubbed by GM as a ‘Reverse All-Service Bus) was a collaboration between engineers and designers at both the factory and PSNJ to fabricate a vehicle which would actually be two independently powered buses within one body.

You can throw your ideas of ‘Hybrid’ or Diesel Electric (of any type) right out the window because when this coach plied a non-electrified route, it operated as a pure TDH having nothing to do with its second source of motive power.

However, when called upon for duty as a trolley bus (in this case to service the abandoned Newark subway system), the power poles were raised to meet the overhead grid and, simply put, a switch was toggled to shut down the Diesel and begin electric motive operation.

The secret of success in the development of the ‘RASB’ was the common drive rear axle which, in this case, sported two independent ‘drive’ bowls (one for electric and the other for Diesel).

The left hand bowl housed a conventional differential assembly while the right hand bowl (experimental) housed a double reduction 90-degree drive without differential and was connected to a large electric motor.

A sliding clutch was used as a means of transferring operation from one bowl to the other.

GM’s cost to PSNJ for its engineering, development and delivery of the D900 prototype was $55,000 but would be reduced to just over $25,000 per unit for an expected delivery of 72 production models;

Some ‘raw facts’ on the D900;

Seating; 43, Overall length; 35’8”, Width; 96”, Height 132”, Weight; 21,740lb, Diesel engine; 6V-71, Transmission; Hydraulic, Electric Motor; GE 1204B1.

Modifications; (as per New Jersey law and PSNJ specification);

Reinforced overhead and side steel panels adjacent to rear door and emergency door instead of aluminum, Wood passenger doors instead of steel, Rubber insulated stanchions, Rear bumper extended to clear overhead pole retrievers.

Because of both political and logistical problems, the D900 never actually saw revenue service as a trolley and was eventually stripped of its electric propulsion equipment and did serve for a number of years as a standard TDH 4509 from PSNJ’s Greenville Garage in Jersey City.

The complete story of the D900 may be found in the September/October 1992 Motor Coach Age.

Photos courtesy of the Motor Bus Society.

Mr. Linsky – Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

[fishbowl]

Thanks, frankie and Mr. L., for the fascinating and detailed information on this unique bus. I really appreciate your doing the research and taking the time to post it!

[RailBus63]

A fascinating oddity. Who knows - perhaps if PSNJ had decided to renew the ASV network and ordered a few hundred more of these vehicles, maybe we would have seen a New Look ASV prototype sometime in the early 1960's!

Jim D.

[Mr. Linsky]

Another real 'Old Look' Oddity comes to us in the guise of fleet # 674 - a 1954 GM Coach Model TDH 4512 and one of ten likenesses numbered 670 to 679 originally purchased in that year by The Ohio Bus Line Company but subsequently operating for its cousin Cincinnati Transit.

# 674 is a rare single door 4512 and even rarer having no standee glasses but does have the side roll sign in its proper place over the first passenger window.

Seating was standard transit plus two for the missing rear door and the transoms were replaced by parcel racks for suburban operation.

A little Cincinnati history;

From 1859 to 1952, the Cincinnati Street Railway operated streetcars, and later buses (under The Ohio Bus Line Company flag) in Cincinnati and its environs. In 1952, the company was renamed Cincinnati Transit Company. The last streetcars ran in 1951, and trolleybuses operated from 1936 to 1965.

Photo courtesy of 'ttcbeat' and is available at eBay as item # 400488699490.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[traildriver]

I'm not sure of the ownership history, but I looked at my Russell's Guide from 1968, and The Ohio Bus Line Company was still in operation, based in Hamilton, Oh. It ran intercity and/or suburban service from Cincy to Dayton and Richmond, In. My 1971 Guide shows the name simplified to the The Ohio Bus Line.

That is a rare bus, indeed. I wonder why they didn't just use standard Suburban style buses.....

[Mr. Linsky]

[roymanning2000]

Ohio Bus Line was formed by the Cincinnati Street Railway about 1925 to acquire the Queen City Motor Bus Company which ran between Cincinnati and Hamilton. Eventually, Ohio Bus Line expanded north as far as Dayton, OH and Richmond, IN.

Its parent, by that time time known as Cincinnati Transit, sold the company about 1970. It entered Chapter 11 bankruptcy proceedings in late 1971 and went out of business in January, 1972.

In November, 1961, Ohio Bus Line sold several short suburban lines in the Cincinnati area to Cincinnati Transit, along with 35 buses. The 4512 in the photo is one of those. I believe that all of them wore the OBL colors throughout their Cincinnati Transit days.

The lack of standee windows was not unusual for Ohio Bus Line. They had 38 TDH-4507's and 10 TDH-4509's built the same way. There were 28 of the 4512's purchased in three groups. Perhaps once they got in the habit of buying them that way, they couldn't stop.

Roy

[Mr. Linsky]

Thanks to my good friend and mentor Jeff Marinoff of GMOldLookBus, we see an unusual oddity in the form of fleet # 325 - 1942 45 passenger Yellow Coach Model TD 4505 operating for New York Bus Tours of The Bronx, New York but purchased used from Louis Binetti Bus Company in 1957 who, in turn had gained it from it original owner Adirondeck Transit Lines of Kingston, New York.

# 325 is a rare 'drop sash' suburban version of Yellow's standard transits of the 'squared window' Old Look era and was equipped with comfortable high back seats on platforms, parcel racks, airline type passenger reading lights and was said to have had underfloor luggage bins with only fifty-eight being built in two models, and most with Hydraulic Transmissions.

New York's # 325 as shown below was nothing quite like it in appearance when new originally being devoid of all decorative and utility stainless steel, aluminum and chromium fittings both inside and out due to the need for those materials for the war effort.

A modernization of # 325 after the war included a heavy 'paired window' type chromium front bumper, recessed sealed beam headlamps, dummy Thermo-Matic air intake over the windscreen equipped with after market Michigan Markers, a touch of Silversides under the belt line, a well placed set of wings and later version of GM's badge under the windscreen (apparently taken from a PD 4101), a matching strip of stainless steel cradling the headlights (also in very nice taste) and a misplaced set of directional signals.

Of note is the still operational pre Thermo-Matic full time mechanical ventilation system on the roof as per New York mandate.

# 325 is seen in charter and to have just passed under the landmark Highbridge in Southwestern Bronx.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[frankie]

To expand further on Mr. L's comment, NYBS also purchased that same year, bus 224 - the same model as 325, but from Intercity Bus Co. I would assume that it got the same trim treatment.

All in all, NYBS had a total of 8 Yellow Coach old looks include the two shown below. 122 is also a drop sash, but model TD-4503 (along with 123) purchased in 1955 from DeCamp of the same fleet numbers. Trim treatment was the same as 325 minus the updated headlight housing, however it did get the misplaced turn signals. Incidentally, these two buses were the first two built for that model with serial numbers 001 (shown) and 002.

The bus to the right is 645, an earlier acquired TD-4505 purchased from Adirondack Trailways in 1952. The original bumper and headlamps were retained.

NYBS's practice of trimming their buses were not just confined to the old looks. Yellow Coach 121, a 1940 model 740 purchased from DeCamp in 1953 (along with 119 and 120) also got the trim treatment including wings, roof vent and silversiding strip.

Frankie

Photos courtesy of MBS for educational purposes

[traildriver]

Wow....I've worked for ADT since '94, and had no idea they ever operated Suburban's.....wish I could see one painted for ADT.....

[Mr. Linsky]

'The story of Fifth Avenue Coach Company # 2500'

In 1940, the Chicago based Omnibus Corporation (OMCO), parent to both the Chicago (ILL.) and Fifth Avenue (NY) Motor Coach Companies began to realize that their trademark double decked buses were too heavy and therefore too costly to run.

As a long time and loyal customer of Yellow Coach, OMCO turned to their engineering department to design the largest practical single decked bus as an ideal replacement.

Yellow obliged by coming up with a 54 passenger, 43 foot long model technically referred to EXP-204 but dubbed a TD 5501.

The 5501, carrying fleet # 2500 and in OMCO’s classic ornate two tone green and cream livery began an eight year nationwide demonstration tour visiting many of the larger properties including The City of New York but failed to gain orders merely because of its length which would not have met regulation in most states.

However, after a cut down by one window at the factory in 1948 which reduced its length to a 40 foot 50 passenger Model TD 5001 (while strangely showing a TD 5401 designation on its builder's plate), Fifth Avenue Coach purchased #2500 which ran mostly on their # 15 line between Manhattan and Jackson Heights and did so until 1962 when it was transferred to the company’s Westchester Street Transportation subsidiary where it served until destroyed in a fire in 1968.

# 2500 had the distinction of being the only forty foot long transit coach ever to be built by GM in its squared window Old Look era and, except for its unfortunate demise, would have achieved star billing in any transportation museum fleet!

Of note are # 2500's almost trolley car wide double stream front doors

Shown in Chicago early on in its long road show career, #2500 carries the flag of Chicago Motor Coach.

Photo courtesy of 'Vintage-Vault75' and is available on eBay as item # 171049934061.

Mr. Linsky – Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[frankie]

What I'm not sure of is if 2500 started out in New York before going to Chicago among other cities in between as the demo. The bottom photo does show confirmation of this showing the bus at the factory before delivery (note what looks like a Michigan Manufacturers plate) in Fifth Avenue Coach Company livery and signed for route 22.

I'm wondering if the livery was changed - at least the company name - for each city used for demonstrations.

It's obvious that the Chicago graphics are different especially the rooftop slogan that is one window forward. The 2500 is much thicker that the FACCo version along with some other minor lettering details. It looks like the angel wing graphics et al are the same. The license plate looks to be either from 1940 or a flat fiberboard 1944 based on the font and color combo.

Any thoughts?

Frankie

Bottom photo courtesy of Guy Martin from his book for educational purposes.

[NorthShore]

I was always curious about that roll sign on the FACCO #2500.
It reads 22-5th & 8th Aves. via Riverside Drive.
I know this route never existed, but I am curious as to was would this route and "Rt 21" would have been.
Does anyone have more info?

[Mr. Linsky]

frankie,

It was generally the habit of manufacturers to use a generic paint scheme on demonstrators and only change (for legal purposes) the operator flags for each trial run.

In # 2500's situation, the bus took on the character of the Omnibus Corporation for many obvious reasons with, not the least of which being the very close association between it and the manufacturer.

I believe you are correct about FACCO being 2500's first stop on its grand tour as can be seen in the image below taken in New York City in 1940 carrying the FACCO flag and the manufacturer's plates that you mention.

In re NorthShore's question; # 2500's heading in the photo of RT. # 22 never existed according to the July/August 1971 Motor Coach Age but may have been anticipated as in the works or abandoned at the time the roll sign was made - NYCO did have a short route on the lower east side which was numbered 22.

Interestingly, in a photo on Page 4 of Greller taken in June 1948 we see # 2500 shortened and in full FACCO regalia including their later two tone green and cream makeup working the B47 Tomkins Avenue route in Brooklyn as a demonstrator which might have been in a deal between FACCO and NYCTS.

Photo courtesy of the Motor Bus Society.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'