BusTalk

[ripta42]

CTA has taken its entire fleet of NABI 60-LFW articulated buses out of service after one experienced a structural failure returning to the garage. All will be inspected for cracks in the articulated joint.

More info at ChicagoBus.org.

[Mr. Linsky]

Looks pretty serious to me! (shades of the 870's in New York).

It leads one to wonder about the 60 BRT's, and what might happen if the hundreds already in service in Los Angeles were suddenly removed from the road.

Officials seem to be much more forthcoming about these matters today than they were years back.

In fact, nothing was ever publicized concerning the 'roof shimmy' on the original GM New Looks or the inherent weakness also in the roofs of the 4509's and 4510's that was corrected on the 4511's and 4512's.

It looks as though NABI's upward rise could be short lived!

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

[ripta42]

I think the 60BRT is enough of a different design that it won't be affected. I'm sure CTA's maintenance also had something to with the problem.

[ripta42]

I stand corrected; according to a post at BusChat, LACMTA did pull its 60BRTs out of service last year after finding frame cracks. They were inspected and returned to service.

[Cyberider]

From Mass Transit Magazine
http://www.masstransitmag.com/publication/article.jsp?siteSection=3&id=8514

Chicago's Accordion-Style Buses Silenced


Posted: April 24th, 2009 09:57 AM GMT-05:00

By Jon Hilkevitch
Chicago Tribune

ILLINOIS - About 225 accordion-style buses that the CTA removed from service in February after cracks and other structural defects were found will not be returned to the streets of Chicago, transit officials said Thursday.

Among the issues still to be resolved is how many millions of dollars in losses the CTA, the busmaker and taxpayers will be on the hook for in the $102.1 million deal gone sour.

The CTA and the manufacturer, North American Bus Industries Inc., continue to battle in Cook County Circuit Court. Lawsuits were filed after negotiations reached an impasse several years ago.

Hours after receiving inquiries from the Tribune on Thursday, the busmaker issued a voluntary recall aimed at inspecting and repairing the CTA buses. The company said it had been denied an opportunity to "fully inspect" the CTA buses pulled from service two months ago.

The CTA still plans to return the buses to the Alabama-based manufacturer, CTA President Richard Rodriguez said.

"Given the six-year performance history of these buses, concerns about their long-term structural integrity and ongoing litigation with the manufacturer, it does not make sense to expend any more of our limited resources on these buses," Rodriguez said.

He said he was suspicious of the company's recall offer, calling it an attempt at "damage control."

The buses are experiencing frame cracks and widespread failures of various structural components that should not occur in vehicles averaging about four years old and with relatively low mileage, agency officials said.

"The Federal Transit Administration is currently working with the Chicago Transit Authority to determine a disposition plan to preserve federal interest in the remaining value of the buses in question," said Ketrina Nelson, a spokeswoman with the federal agency. Of the 226 buses, federal funds were used for 80 percent of the purchase cost of 142 buses, or about $55 million.

The 60-foot-long buses were supposed to have a service life of 12 years and about 500,000 miles. The buses, which accounted for more than 10 percent of the CTA's 2,000-bus fleet, were assigned to some of the busiest routes serving downtown via Lake Shore Drive and other major corridors.

Particularly during rush periods, the CTA and its customers have been forced to make do with fewer buses and longer waits at bus stops. The delivery of about 75 new buses from another manufacturer is easing the shortage, along with the purchase of an additional 58 articulated hybrid buses using federal stimulus money, Rodriguez said.

Structural failures started showing up at 65,000 miles on some of the problem buses that were previously put through a "shaker table" designed to simulate 100,000 miles of street conditions, according to CTA documents obtained by the Tribune.

"We knew the CTA was buying a lemon when they bought these buses," said Darrell Jefferson, president of the CTA bus drivers union, Amalgamated Transit Union Local 241.

"The people who were sent to Alabama to inspect the buses, they kind of informed us way back then that this bus would not meet standards," Jefferson said. "Fortunately for us, the bus is off the street before anything could happen in a negative way."

The CTA hired a consultant in February to examine some of the sidelined vehicles after one bus suffered a complete structural failure while being driven into a bus garage. The break occurred in the articulation joint that connects the two sections of the bus.

The consultant's analysis of other buses revealed serious cracks in vehicle frames, rear doors and floors as well as other deficiencies, officials said.

But many of the defects found on the sample of buses disassembled and studied did not a form consistent pattern, CTA officials said.

Quality-control issues during the manufacturing process quickly surfaced, the consultant said, pointing to poor uniformity in locations on the buses where pieces of the chassis were welded together. In myriad cases, the weld points did not match the written specifications that the manufacturer provided the CTA, the consultant's report said.

Before the CTA could consider returning any of the buses to service, each vehicle's chassis would need to be disassembled and inspected -- taking up to 80 hours per bus and costing almost $900,000 for the fleet, Rodriguez said. Repairs and materials would be extra expenses, he said.

The problems uncovered go far beyond the worst-case scenario anticipated in 2003 when multiple small frame cracks were first found on a test bus delivered to the CTA by the Anniston, Ala.-based manufacturer.

The CTA conditionally accepted the buses based on assurances from the manufacturer that defects previously identified had been corrected before delivery of the $102 million order. But the CTA said that commitment was not met, and that some of the later failures found subsequently reoccurred after initial repairs were made.

The CTA stopped making payments on the contract in 2004, and the busmaker filed a breach of contract lawsuit last year. The CTA counter-sued, arguing that the manufacturer failed to meet contractual requirements. Even before the fleet of 226 buses was parked two months ago because of safety concerns, the vehicles had spent too much time in repair garages related to problems with bus suspension, air conditioning, doors and engine filters designed to trap particulates, the CTA told the Federal Transit Administration last year.

Mechanical issues with the buses have resulted in a failure rate higher than that of buses three times their age, officials said. The CTA said the cost to operate the buses exceeds operating costs of comparable buses by $6 million annually.

jhilkevitch@tribune.com

[Dieseljim]

This sounds like a repeat of the episode New York City had with the Grumman 870 buses when every last one of those buses was removed from service for the same reason-structural and other defects. Can't any manufacturer build them the way they should be built and do it right first time off?

[HwyHaulier]

[ripta42]

I wouldn't say that two such recalls over the course of 28 years is an indication that something is wrong industry-wide. Furthermore, both can be chalked up to teething problems, the 870 being Grumman's first transit bus and the 60-LFW being NABI's first low-floor artic.

Keep in mind that not every agency that bought Grummans had the same problems as New York (in fact, I'm not sure any others were recalled) and ran their 870s for 20+ years. Even the recalled units were repaired, resold, and put in many years of service.

As for the NABIs, similar problems with 60-BRTs in Los Angeles have already been repaired. We can't really compare to other 60-LFWs outside of Chicago because there aren't any.

[timecruncher]

127 of those MBSTOA Grumman/Flxible 870s ended up in Cincinnati at Metro, where they ran just fine (thanks) until just a couple of years ago.

They still leaked from above the windshield like any good Flxible ADB, but they were reliable buses with excellent ventilation and were about half the cost of new buses at the time they were acquired.

timecruncher

[andrethebusman]

As of this date (12/27/11) all 226 of CTA's NABI artics are still in dead storage. 202 are at the South Shops, occupying every available square inch of storage space, while 24 are sitting outside at the 103rd St Garage. The one that broke in half (7546?) is sitting in two pieces under tarps, with the two halves about a block apart at the shops. Northing has been done with them, nothing probably will ever be done with them. Most likely they will just sit until they are 12 years old in 2017 and then they will be junked. NABI refuses to do anything unless CTA lets them inspect them, and CTA refuses to do that. They are not needed any more, there are plenty of NFIL artics. There are rumors that CTA tinkered with the suspensions to lower the clearances by a couple of inches, which would have voided any warranty, but CTA will not admit to anything. There were also rumors that the Feb 09 "sudden retirement" was far from sudden, and was based on when enough NFIL artics would be delivered so the NABI's could be pulled without affecting service. This is a fine example of making theory follow practice, CTA hated them from the get-go and found a reason to get rid of them.

[timecruncher]

Very interesting. Wish we could have done that with the accursed AMG coaches at TARC and [Queen City] Metro!

timecruncher

[RailBus63]

[Mr. Linsky]

andrethebusman,

Would you have any pictures of these CTA NABI's?

I'm interested in knowing whether they are the same 60BRT's that Los Angeles has been running for the past two or three years.

Surprisingly, while they do show some wear and tear including breaks in the seams of the flexible divider between the front and rear sections, they seem to be running pretty well.

I've attached an L.A. photo for comparison.

Credit within frame.

Thanks for sharing.

Mr. 'L'

[andrethebusman]

CTA Nabi artics are not BRT-style like LA's, but the "ordinary" lowfloor styling. Las far as I know, the argument between NABI and CTA has never been solved. The buses are rotting in storage, many now on flat tires, etc. Sad looking. CTA is talking about raising some money by auctioing off the remaining 84 Flxibles (6000's) for scrap. These 225 (minus the one in two pieces...) would likely bring in more.

[buslist]

<http>

The CTA will recoup only as much as $36.25 million out of the $87.7 million it paid to the manufacturer of 226 accordion-style buses that the transit agency stopped using four years ago after cracks and other structural defects were found in some of the buses, officials said Monday.

The terms were announced as part of a settlement signed earlier in the day between the CTA and North American Bus Industries, Inc. The settlement ended lawsuits that had been pending since 2009, with neither the CTA nor the bus maker admitting fault, officials said.

The CTA removed the buses from service in February 2009, claiming the vehicles were dangerous after cracks in the joint connecting the midsection of the articulated buses and other defects were found on buses with relatively low mileage. Many of the vehicles also experienced suspension and air-conditioning problems, as well as unreliable particulate filters in the engine, CTA officials said.

The CTA ordered the 60-foot buses in 2001, took delivery between 2003 and 2005 and had paid NABI $87.7 million on the $102.1 million contract when the transit agency stopped payments in 2005. NABI then sued the CTA for stopping payments on the contract, leading to more litigation.

Under the settlement announced Monday, the CTA will receive between $31.25 million and $36.25 million over five years. The actual payment amount will depend on a separate agreement the CTA has with NABI to provide spare parts for other buses in the CTA fleet. In addition to manufacturing buses, NABI is in the after-market parts business.

The CTA retains possession of the NABI buses. It has sold 53 of the buses for scrap and plans to dispose of the remaining vehicles through the same process, CTA spokesman Brian Steele said.

The settlement ?represents the best outcome for the CTA and its customers,?? Steele said.
While the CTA will not be repaid in full, it did use the buses for up to six years and some of the buses logged more than 250,000 miles, Steele said.


jhilkevitch@tribune.com
Twitter @jhilkevitch