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'A COUPLE OF UNUSUAL 5302's'

 
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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:58 pm    Post subject: 'A COUPLE OF UNUSUAL 5302's' Reply with quote

I keep coming up with these odd ball buses, and just found a couple of GM SDM 5302's (one A/C'd and the other not) that operated in Canada.

These are probably the only two GM 'New Looks' of any kind that I've ever seen with 'sedan doors'.

Nothing in the books shows this as a GM option on a New Look, but it would be my educated guess that some north of the border operators had them installed one way or the other to keep the buses warmer in the cold Canadian winters!

Credits; within frames.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY


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roymanning2000



Age: 69
Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 189

PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. L,

The sedan door was a factory option on suburbans built at London, ON. Several Canadian operators specified this feature. I've never seen one of these up close but, several people that have told me that these buses utilized the same door mechanism as the PD4106.

Back in 1966, one of the issues of Motor Coach Age had a photo of the very first suburban, a SDM4501 (serial C001) built for Charterways. It had the sedan door, so this option must have dated from the beginning of fishbowl production in Canada in 1962.

All of the fishbowls I've ridden in the U. S. had the standard two-piece door that always had that distinctive wobble. In the winter, that probably would have let in a lot of that cold Canadian air, eh? Presumably the sedan door alleviated that problem.

I don't believe this option was ever offered on Pontiac-built suburbans. That's too bad because some operators who used their suburbans primarily or exclusively in charter or tour work might have specified it. I think it looks pretty sharp.

Roy
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timecruncher



Age: 67
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 456
Location: Louisville, Kentucky

PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As stated previously, these creatures were not uncommon in the Great White North. And indeed, these buses were delivered with the parlor door. It did look wierd with no door control handle! I don't clearly recall the door handle mechanism on these.

This one was at the Hamilton, ON bus terminal during a visit with the Motor Bus Society back in 1984:



I rode one of the earlier new look versions of this back in 1967 during a family vacation (I was 16 at the time) from Niagara Falls to Buffalo, returning on yet another one. These were non-a/c gear-jammers. The ride from Buffalo back to the Falls on the Canadian side was scenic and enjoyable!

Sorry, it isn't a real good photo, but I was shooting Kodachrome II (ASA 25) and the weather was not cooperating with us that day!

timecruncher
Hey, you hosers, she's a nice looking bus, eh?
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

T.C.,

Thanks for the info.

Let's see what my photographic talents can do to spruce up your 1995 a bit.

Isn't it amazing what the eye of a camera really catches!

I'll tell you one thing - you can bet that with the gasket around that door, nothing came through when it was closed!

Enjoy!

Mr. 'L'

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roymanning2000



Age: 69
Joined: 01 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One New York City-area operator, Domenico, I believe, had a fishbowl with the sedan door. It was acquired used from a Canadian bus company but I can't remember who it was. It was a fairly late model forty-footer with air conditioning.

I've been told by a couple of people that the door mechanism was the same one used on the GM parlor buses, complete with the big handle mounted on some sort of a stand so that the operator could reach it. However, in numerous photographs of these buses, I have never been able to make out the door handle looking through the windshield. Before I was told about the 4106 setup, I assumed it was some sort of air operated door. I've never actually seen one myself.

Roy
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ripta42
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Age: 38
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
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Location: Pawtucket, RI / Woburn, MA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

roymanning2000 wrote:
One New York City-area operator, Domenico, I believe, had a fishbowl with the sedan door. It was acquired used from a Canadian bus company but I can't remember who it was. It was a fairly late model forty-footer with air conditioning.


Here it is! 1975 photo by Ed McKernen:

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timecruncher



Age: 67
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 456
Location: Louisville, Kentucky

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can see the door handle clearly in that Domenico pic. Looks like an aerial rod with more of a school bus-style handle to me. I honestly don't recall how the door was set up on the Canada Coach units I rode, but it was not air-operated.

timecruncher
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roymanning2000



Age: 69
Joined: 01 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That door control looks a bit flimsy to me. I agree the handle doesn't look like the ones on the 4106. Reminds me of the door control lever used on the 4103 or the even older Flxible Clippers. Boy, I'm really dating myself by remembering those things.

Roy
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Dieseljim
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Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 548
Location: Perry, NY

PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:46 am    Post subject: Canada Coach No.1995 Reply with quote

I remember riding this particular bus first from Buffalo to Fort Erie, then Niagara Falls to Buffalo on the Canadian side. First trip I had 1905, which was a 4501 from the Class of 1960 with the two piece air door. This coach was in the final group of six consecutively numbered buses of this model delivered to CCL in 1967. These buses were the workhorses of Canada Coach Lines' fleet for many years, just as the TDM4515s and PD4104s had been earlier. I hope at least one of them has been preserved or restored.
Mr. Linsky wrote:
T.C.,

Thanks for the info.

Let's see what my photographic talents can do to spruce up your 1995 a bit.

Isn't it amazing what the eye of a camera really catches!

I'll tell you one thing - you can bet that with the gasket around that door, nothing came through when it was closed!

Enjoy!

Mr. 'L'

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Cdntruckphotog



Age: 65
Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Posts: 43
Location: Mississauga Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These were not city buses stopping every couple of blocks but "Highway" coaches.
Canada Coach was a subsidiary of Hamilton Street Railway who operated the city buses in the then "Pittsburgh of the North".
Canada Coach routes ran south east to Niagara Falls and (maybe) Buffalo on Provincial Highway 8.
I believe they ran southwest along Provincial Highway 6 to Port Dover and I distinctly remember them running west to Brantford on Provincial Highway 2.
Yes; the door swung wide when it opened and one would have to be careful not to be in the way. The driver pulled on a lever; there was no hiss to indicate an air assist.
Grey Coach Lines had several of these types of GM's as well for use on short runs to the further suburbs of Toronto like Oakville, Brampton, Newmarket and Oshawa.


timecruncher wrote:
As stated previously, these creatures were not uncommon in the Great White North. And indeed, these buses were delivered with the parlor door. It did look wierd with no door control handle! I don't clearly recall the door handle mechanism on these.

This one was at the Hamilton, ON bus terminal during a visit with the Motor Bus Society back in 1984:



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mackbuses



Age: 70
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
Posts: 12
Location: Falmouth Ma.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Roy,
Domenico indeed had one along with Carry Transportation, I'm not sure how many, but I know that had at least one.Getting back to the door
mechanism, It was more like the old PD-4101-4103 door openers except
the rod to the door was chromed and the door handle was steel. As the older PD units the rods were painted and the handles were wood.

Dave

/Users/dearstyne/Desktop/Carey bowl 800.jpg

roymanning2000 wrote:
One New York City-area operator, Domenico, I believe, had a fishbowl with the sedan door. It was acquired used from a Canadian bus company but I can't remember who it was. It was a fairly late model forty-footer with air conditioning.

I've been told by a couple of people that the door mechanism was the same one used on the GM parlor buses, complete with the big handle mounted on some sort of a stand so that the operator could reach it. However, in numerous photographs of these buses, I have never been able to make out the door handle looking through the windshield. Before I was told about the 4106 setup, I assumed it was some sort of air operated door. I've never actually seen one myself.

Roy
[img][/img][img][/img][img][/img][img][/img][img][/img][img][/img]
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mackbuses,

If you're saying that Carey Transportation had a GM New Look with a sedan door, I would love to see a photo of it.

I do know that in early 1968 the company did buy six S8M-5303A's numbered 805 to 810 to fulfill a special contract.

Aside from their fleets of Flxible Clippers, Visicoaches and GM PD 4104's and 06's, they also purchased one 1964 SDM 4502 numbered 804 and five 1958 TDM 4512's numbered 500 to 504.

I have never seen any of their GM Old Look or New Look coaches but they must have been gorgeous in their simple but elegant livery as you know from your experience in modeling them so well.

One of my favorite Carey shots below taken by Mel Bernero.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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