BusTalk

[JimmiB]

Mr.L,
Your comments on the Golden Glow headlights just reminded me of another oddity. Some of the older buses I drove for Reading Bus had a toggle switch on the dash to choose between "city and country" lights. The country light setting was normal high and low beams. The city setting gave you low beam and a lower "glow" light. I believe these were on the Yellow Coach 4007's that were delivered in 1944 and 1946. Would have been fleet numbers 701-717.

[Mr. Linsky]

We often talk about the fact that we see so few shots of the rear ends of buses which, in my estimation, can be as important as frontal views.

Photographed in Norfolk, Virginia in April of 1952, we glimpse just such a view of fleet # 915 - a 1951 GM Coach Model TDH 4509 and one of twenty likenesses numbered from 901 to 920 operating for the Virginia Transit Company (VTC) of Norfolk, Virginia.

# 915 is a phase II 4509 as evidenced by the roof reinforcement which reduced the width of the single passenger windows forward of the rear and emergency doors.

The phase II project did not update the fresh air intake cowls over the rear lounge seat quarter windows nor was a GM badge added to the lower right engine panel - those changes took place in phase III.

Of note on # 915 is the optional large and very bright directional signal fixtures that were used on most post war ACF equipment and a far cry from the tiny and useless arrows GM supplied as standard at the time.

For you newbie GM Old Look bus spotters here's a hint on judging the widths of the different models; on the 102 inch wide 4510's, 4511's, 5103's and 5105's there is a marked separation between the two rear windows measuring over seven inches while on the 96 inch wide jobs (which were all others) that separation measured at about an inch and a half.

Photo courtesy of 4509bus and is up for bid on eBay as item # 350550781863.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[frankie]

[traildriver]

[Mr. Linsky]

Quoting Traildriver; Indeed it did. When I used to ride these on the way to school, often six of us would sit across that rear bench......

There's nothing wrong with what Traildriver said - in fact, I have always described the rear seat over the engine and between the two quarter windows as being a bench.

However, in Yellow's first 'Old Look' catalog dated in early 1940 it describes that seat as a 'five passenger lounge seat'. (seen on page 122 of Luke's Yellow Coach Buses 1923/1943).

I thought that to be a more classy description so I use it myself now but, beyond that, I don't have to tell you how many drivers lounged on those seats at layovers in dark and desolate spots and what they did - I'll let your imagination take care of that one!

And, the answer is no! I never let my girlfriends ride with me!

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[frankie]

My fond memories of the "lounge seat" was when I was a young kid living in Brooklyn back in the '50's. Often when Mom went on her shopping trips to Fulton St. in downtown Brooklyn, we either took the 26 Putnam, 52 Gates or 38 DeKalb bus to Fulton St. (Civic Center destination). All three routes were served by the TDH-4510 and my favorite spot was the center of that seat. Often the buses were empty. Sitting by the engine always made the trip that much more enjoyable.

I was to that seat as Edith Ann was to her rocker and Gallagher to his giant couch! As skinny as I was back then, that seat could have fitted 7 of me!

Frankie

[fishbowl]

[JimmiB]

Lots of memories on the "lounge seats", but nothing I can talk about on the forum.

[frankie]

[Mr. Linsky]

frankie,

Of all the Old Looks, the 4509 was subjected to more modifications than any other model and in the last of the upgrades the buses appeared outwardly to be exactly like the 4512's - no expert could tell them apart.

You can see two excellent examples in Luke's 'Old Look Buses - Yellow & GM 40's & 50's with the first being on page 31 - Pittsburgh # 235 purchased in January 53 and on page 79 (bottom) Crown Coach Company # 183 purchased in February 53 and both being among the last 4509's ever to be produced.

Of note are the signals lights, 'plastic' GM badges and the fresh air cowls over the rear quarter windows without the 'Deco' bars under them.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[Mr. Linsky]

Seen in downtown Auburn, New York in July of 1967 is fleet # 642 - a 1964 GM Model TDH 3501 and one of two likenesses with the other numbered 641 delivered to BEQ Leasing, Inc. of Utica, New York for the Auburn Transit Corporation.

The oddity here are the sliding passenger windows which are so rare on a squared window GM Old Look transit that I'm doubtful that they were of GM origin.

Also of interest is the device over the first four standee glasses that could be a modified version of the 'Bat Wing' ad sign concept used on later New Look models although it doesn't seem deep enough to be back lit.

Photo courtesy of 4509Bus and is up for bid on eBay as item# 370611881973.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[roymanning2000]

The sliding windows were a GM option. I've seen photos of 3501's owned by other operators that had the sliders also. One that comes to mind is a subsidiary of Suburban Transit in New Jersey.

Roy

[Mr. Linsky]

From the GM Old Look oddity file comes fleet number 184 - a 1959 GM Coach Model TDH 4512 and one of fifteen likenesses numbered from 181 to 195 operating for the Richmond Division of the Virginia Transit Company (VTC).

In the last years of heavy duty GM Old Look production it wasn't unusual to see either GM fabricated or after market air conditioners with condenser coil, and fan cabinets along with duct work on the rear of the roof with compressors either driven by the main engine or a gasoline unit under floor.

However, some operators such as VTC were known to experiment and fleet # 184 below was no exception with a completely self contained unit on its roof.

Of particular note are the engine exhaust muffler and size and weight of the apparatus which must have played havoc with the rear air suspension!

The manufacturer's name is not clear but may well have been either Frigidaire or ThermoKing with both of which being major suppliers especially to the trucking industry.

The photo, taken in Richmond in April of 1962, is courtesy of 4509bus and is up for bid on eBay as item # 370614960686.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[Mr. Linsky]

While we're on the subject of retrofitting GM Old Look buses with Air Conditioning, let's look at the 'granddaddy' of the art as we see fleet # 3255 - a 1947 GM Coach Model TDH 4507 and one of one hundred numbered from 3200 to 3299 delivered to St. Louis Public Service of St. Louis, Missouri in June of that year.

While I am unsure of just how many of this one hundred bus order were eventually air conditioned, it's certain that those designated for special Express routes were as evidenced by both the destination sign and the boast of the feature written on the roof.

I'm told that St. Louis was so good at the retrofits that they contracted themselves out to other operators far and wide to make these special installations.

Of note is the extra fuel filler nearer to the rear door which, in this case, fed an under floor gasoline engine and compressor.

It must have been refreshing to step into an air conditioned 4507 - I never had such luck in my three summers behind the wheel with Green Line (NY)!

Photo, taken in St. Louis in 1956, courtesy of 4509bus and is up for bid on eBay as item # 350567181501.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[frankie]