BusTalk

[Mr. Linsky]

The North Shore Bus Company of Flushing, New York, once the largest private operator in Queens County, found itself in dire straights after World War II with battered equipment dating as far back as the early thirties and, to compound the felony so to speak, a denial by the city to allow the company to raise its long time nickel fare to meet its post war needs - namely, the replacement of its fleet.

As dim as prospects were however, the company did order and receive ten of the first Twin Coach Model 41S's off the line in late 1946 numbered 150 to 159 and, at the same time, ordered an additional forty Twins to be numbered 160 to 199 as well as twenty GM TDH 4507's to be numbered 300 to 319.

Unfortunately, 1947 marked the end of the line (not a pun) for the venerable old company who surrendered its franchises to the City of New York in a takeover that created the municipality's Queens Bus Division.

The sixty aforementioned ordered buses were still in the pipeline at the time of transfer and were diverted to the city who immediately ordered two hundred additional GM TDH 4507's to replace the fleet.

North Shore's usable Twins were sent to Brooklyn to augment its Twin Coach fleet and somewhere in that borough we see below one such specimen in city dress while still retaining its original North Shore number.

Note the yet to be changed roll signs and temporary route placard in the windshield.

Photo thanks to Bruce K. of eBay.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[Mr. Linsky]

Thanks to Dennis M. Linsky (no relation that I know of) of GMOldLookBus, we see fleet number 2362 - a 1947 GM Coach Model TDH 4507 and one of nearly 100 likenesses delivered to the Fifth Avenue Coach Company of Manhattan, New York in increments between 1946 and 1948.

# 2362 is seen almost brand new in parent Omnibus Corporation's trademark ornate two tone green and cream livery somewhere in northern Queens working the Manhattan to Jackson Heights then # 15 line.

The route had its beginnings in 1925 to provide needed service for a burgeoning population of commuters in the nearby Queens suburb and wended its way to the city's midtown via the Queensboro Bridge.

Also seen in the shot following not far behind is one of Fifth Avenue's venerable double decked coaches from a bygone era.

Of note on # 2362 is the lack of directional signals (a hallmark of the company's equipment in those days) and something that appears to be a plate protruding just under the windshield that I can't explain!

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[JimmiB]

I wonder if that is some sort of air vent since the bus lacks the normal two vents on the front end.

[Mr. Linsky]

JimmiB,

I don't know, but whatever it is it had to be affixed because there was nothing that it could just rest on.

One thing that I forgot to mention; you'll note that on # 2362's right side front roll sign just to the right of the #15 is what appears to be an alteration with a white background of a word and, while I stand corrected on this point, I believe that route 15 had a change of termination in Manhattan from 25th. Street at Madison Square Park to Pennsylvania Station and that might be what was changed on the sign (but again, I'll let the 'pundits' have the final say on that!).

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[Free-transfer]

It just says: 15 JACKSON HTS via Queensborough Bridge

[andy47]

Great shot. To answer one poster's question, the south terminal of this route remained at Madison Square (25th & 5th Ave.) till about the early 1980s, long after FACO succumbed to MABSTOA. Since then the south terminal has been Penn Station, shared with the #4 route, which has used Penn Station as its south terminal since 1912. And that's where there is some irony in this photo. FACO's 4507s were most commonly found on the #4 route during the majority of their careers - also could be spotted on the #3 and #5. Rare to see them on the #15. The photo was probably taken around 1950 when the FACO Model 720 double deckers on Route #15 were being phased out. In 1951 a fleet of Mack C50s replaced the remaining DDs on Route #15.

[Mr. Linsky]

The attachment is a 'gem' of a photograph and tells a very interesting story of how New York City originally involved itself in the bus business.

Seen back in the mid to late twenties on what was probably Crescent Street in the 'city line' section of Brooklyn is fleet/permit number 188 - a 1920's Mack Model 'AB' operating as an 'Emergency Service Bus' for the City of New York Department of Plant and Structures (DP&S).

The first time that the city involved itself in any form of ground or under ground transportation was in 1930 when it created the Board of Transportation and began to build its own 'Independent' subway system which eventually reached four of the five boroughs.

Any and all bus, trolley or subway activity prior to that time was left to private operators but was under the jurisdiction of the DP&S.

However, the city did keep well over two-hundred private contractors at the ready to fill in in emergency where trolley or bus lines were abandoned (almost a daily occurrence in those days) or to service new routes until private operators could be found.

The buses, all operated by their individual owners, were required to be painted in the same dark red color and to carry the flag of the DP&S as well as their assigned combination fleet/permit number and the legend 'Emergency Bus Service'.

It's funny but at a time when Fifth Avenue Coaches ran their Model Z's with no headlights at all (which, for the life of me, I could never figure out how), # 188 below has no less than four!

On a personal note; at about the same time as the picture was taken, my father was opening his first medical office around the corner on Sheridan Avenue and, as a child, I visited my Uncle Meyer the dentist right on Crescent.

Those were the days!

Photo credit within frame.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[frankie]

[Mr. Linsky]

Seen in respite at Manhattan's 91st. Street and East End Avenue in August of 1947 is fleet # 1718 - a 1946 GM Coach Model TD 4506 and one of fifty-one likenesses numbers in the 17 and 1800's delivered to the Madison Avenue Coach Company, Inc. of Manhattan, New York in that year.

The Madison Avenue Coach Company was a member of the Chicago based Omnibus Corporation's New York division which included Fifth Avenue Coach (FACCO), New York City Omnibus (NYCO) and Eighth Avenue Coach but was under the direct control of NYCO.

Up until the mid forties all Omnibus 'Old Look' equipment other than FACCO's carried the same livery scheme as seen on # 1718 and unquestionably to differentiate them from their uppity cousins that traveled the city's most elegant avenue.

Stainless steel and chromium were still in short supply following the end of the war and all GM 4506's were devoid of such trimmings.

# 1718 and a sibling sitting behind it are shown with New York State required motorized exhaust assemblies on their roofs and the lack of directional signals (a hallmark of the Omnibus Corporation at the time).

Photo courtesy of eBay.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[Mr. Linsky]

Standing close to a yet to be eliminated Long Island Railroad grade crossing somewhere in eastern Queens, Long Island in the very early forties, we see a 1937 40 passenger White Motor Company Model 687 and one of thirty numbered between 501 and 530 delivered to the North Shore Bus Company Inc. of Flushing, New York in that year.

The model 687 was built exclusively for North Shore and featured bodies custom made by Bender and derived power from a 505 cubic inch twelve cylinder 'pancake' gasoline engine mounted underfloor amidships with a cooling fan and radiator under the windshield.

The heavy duty 687's saw most of their service lives hauling commuters on feeder routes to both Jamaica and Flushing from where the city line meets the western edge of Nassau County and records also show that these buses were involved in World's Fair specials from the Bronx in 1939 and 1940.

North Shore, once the largest private operator in Queens, was eventually absorbed into the city's then new Queens Bus Division in 1947 and most of their rolling stock was replaced by GM TDH 4507's.

Credit within photo.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[Mr. Linsky]

[Mr. Linsky]

The following presentation has a great deal of personal meaning for me and certainly brings back a lot of memories.

Pictured in ten frames below is what amounts to a complete side destination sign that appeared on each of thirty five GM TDH 4509's delivered to Green Bus Lines (NY) in 1950.

In my accumulative one year (three summers - four months each) of driving for the company, I would venture to say that I drove virtually every one of the 4509's at one time or another and it is a certainty that my hand wound this roll on more than one occasion.

Interestingly, the eBay vendor selling the signs appears to be offering each section separately at $299.00 each (if he thinks he's going to make $3,000 on this deal his elevator isn't exactly reaching the top floor!).

He does offer a 'Buy It Now' or 'Best Offer' option and I will offer $100.00 for the complete 'in tact' sign (that's about all the nostalgia that I can afford on one item!).

Note that in frame #9 Idlewild Airport had already been renamed New York International (now JFK).

Enjoy.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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[HwyHaulier]

MR 'L' -

A colleague here, NYO, noted this phenomena some while back, in some other exchanges. There's a present day
bunch of folks with more money than sense. For whatever reason, the Transit Roller Signs something of a du jour
Retro fad, for interior decorating touches.

Any of the surviving signs, especially with New York focus, listed at breathtaking prices on a number of sites. Whether
the sellers are getting it, an open question...

........................Vern.......................

[frankie]

Vern: I totally agree with you. As a collector of destination signs that have meaning to me, I often check on eBay to see what is in the offering. It's very sacrilegious IMHO to see some dealers desecrating whole and rare curtains by cutting them down to single or groups of readings and selling them for ridiculous prices. These folks should be thrown under the bus! (Disclaimer: not literally folks!)

Mr. L: That's a beautiful rollsign and a treasured one especially with your connection to it. I'm still looking for a red side curtain out of the ENY shops used on the pre-fishbowl buses. And by the way, I still call it Idlewild.

Four destination curtains in my collection that have meaning to me are side curtains from Newport R.I. off of an old Transit/Checker bus, one from the NYCTA circa '70's from the ENY depot and my St. Louis front curtain (where I currently reside). And of course my curtain with box from the LIRR M1/M3 featured here awhile back.

My most prized possession are my set of side destinations off of an early IND R-4 subway car including the box - the exterior was actually part of the car itself. So not to bore you with photos, I'll just give you a few samples even though it's a bit off the bus subject here. And yes! I did get this off of eBay years before the "Edward Scissorhands" mentality took over!

Frankie

[HwyHaulier]

Frankie -

So, it is not just me? <G> What we see these days with these venerable roller signs is a travesty and sacrilege
(by Rule Books of most organized religions!). Suspect it is a "Burn In Hell" Violation!

Man, oh, man! Years back they were simply going to the dump with the unitized "roller box" assemblies! I'm
delighted with some of the examples you displayed here. Classic, "TAKE THE 'A' TRAIN" (Ellington). Also, wistful
recall of long lost (for no good reason), HUDSON TERMINAL...

.......................Vern.................