BusTalk

[Mr. Linsky]

Seen in this October 1974 shot taken somewhere in the environs of Waukesha, Wisconsin is Wisconsin Coach Lines fleet number 405 - a 1950 GM Model TDH 4511.

# 405 was originally one of 120 4511's purchased in 1950 by the Milwaukee Electric Railway and Transport Company numbered between 1200 and 1319 and operated under the 'The Transport Company' flag (see # 1206 also below).

What make these buses so unique is the fact that they were among only 621 102 inch wide 35 foot long coaches built by GM and included 500 TDH 4510's to New York City with one demonstrator of New York spec. eventually going to Los Angeles.

The 4511 was basically a 4510 with the roof strengthening modification that is evidenced in a narrower single passenger window forward of the rear door.

While the only 4511's to be built went to Milwaukee, they were not a special order but only seemed so because GM could find no other operators interested in the model.

Wisconsin Coach Lines has kept southeastern Wisconsin on the move with scheduled routes since 1941 and is a leading provider of deluxe motor coach tour and charter services under Coach U.S.A. franchise.

Photos borrowed for educational purposes only.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[timecruncher]

Another unique characteristic of TMER&L wide-body GM coaches is that the door control lever was to the right of the steering wheel (!!) and the front doors folded outward rather than inward! Also, if I am not mistaken, when the driver opened the front door, the center door opened also - regardless of whether both doors were needed or not. Strange.

I have a good friend who drives for MCTS who has written a book on trackless trolleys in Milwaukee - he might be able to shed some light on these strange alterations to the standard GM transit coach of the fifties.

TMER&L continued with strange stuff by having the brake interlock triggered by opening the front door on new look coaches in an effort to keep drivers from using the interlock for braking purposes (nahh - we never did that back then, did we?).

I say this because TMER&L was owned from the mid-fifties to the end of private operation by the same syndicate that owned Indianapolis Transit and Louisville Transit. Neither of those two systems had anything as strange as Milwaukee's TDH4511's or their 5105's with unusual door function and controls.

timecruncher
Yeah, I'm that old...

[roymanning2000]

In the fall of 1968, Dayton OH transit entrepreneur Roland St. John acquired a group of 4511's for various properties he controlled. Megacity Transit Lines in Dayton got five, Hamilton (OH) City Lines received six and an unknown number went to Evansville (IN) City Transit. Another four were purchased by another Dayton suburban operator, Miami Valley Bus Lines. A number of these later went on to serve other companies.

I remember riding one of the Megacity buses on the day it went into service and noting the odd location of the door control level as Timecruncher pointed out. These buses seemed to do a good job for their operators. Many ran until the mid-seventies before being put out to pasture.

Roy

[timecruncher]

Roland St. John! I haven't heard that name for a long, long time, but I recall some of the shady bus operations he was part of.

Springfield Bus Line was one of his operations, both city and charter, and he had some of the raggediest PD4106 coaches ever operated on a highway. Never once did I see one of his buses, under his name or SBL that had working a/c or looked as if it were safe to stand next to, let alone drive or ride on!

timecruncher

[roymanning2000]

Timecruncher,

Ah, don't blame poor old Roland for the 4106's in Springfield. He sold his interest in Springfield Transit in 1964 to his local general manager and safety director. They operated it for about five years before going out of business in 1969.

The outfit that had the ratty ex-Greyhound 4106's was Springfield Bus Company. They picked up the pieces after Springfield Transit bowed out. It was owned by the George family who had a couple of taxicab companies in Springfield. Springfield Bus ran the city routes on a subsidized basis for a number of years before the city took them over. The George family then formed a management company that ran the city-owned system until just recently.

I think Springfield Bus got out of the charter business around 1980. It was certainly no loss to the traveling public.

Roy

[timecruncher]

I didn't know all of the details (and I um, fixed that - they were 4106's I meant to type). The only buses I saw with St. John on them were some ex-Trailways Eagle 5 coaches that used to show up at Reds games in Cincinnati all of the time.

Megacity Lines also changed hands a few times, what little I know about them. They tried to run city transit buses on what was essentially intercity service, and I suspect their operating costs were way out of line with both ridership and fares in effect.

timecruncher

[Mr. Linsky]

Speaking of buses at ball parks, here's a nice 1970 shot taken at the then Shea Stadium in Flushing, New York - the then home of the then recently crowned (1969) World Champion New York Mets.

The coaches shown behind left field include two GM PD 4104's, one 4106 and what appears to be possibly a Flxible New Look transit on the far right of the frame, and I'm unsure as to whether these were public charter or team buses.

The game must have been going well for the Mets because their 'bull pen' seems to be pretty quiet.

These were some of the most fantastic times in the history of the club with 'S.R.O.' at every game when they were in town (and that S.R.O. extended out to the roofs of the parked buses!).

This writer had the privilege of attending many many of the games in those days and in a box at third base to boot!

Great memories!

Photo by eBay.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[Jimbo]

Great photo. Notice the dozens of fans standing on the roofs of the buses !

[Mr. Linsky]

Jimbo,

I noticed the standees on the bus roofs and mentioned that in the article.

Now, if I had been the driver of one of those buses, you could bet that I'd never let anyone stand on the roof!

Who knows what damage a large group of hopped up (and I don't mean on drugs) baseball fans could do jumping up and down on the fragile roof of a bus? (especially after a 'grand slam'!).

And, what does a driver put in an incident report after someone either falls from the roof or injures themselves in climbing up and down?

I know if I where the boss my first question would be; what the BLEEP was anyone doing on the roof in the first place and my second comment would be 'you're fired'!

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[roymanning2000]

Here's a link to a photo of one of the former Milwaukee 4511's that went to Hamilton, Ohio. The photographer is David Wilson. He posts on Facebook under davidwilson1949.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwilson1949/3511238639/in/set-72157616566330646

This photo is part of a set called Bus Companies In Transition. It consists of over 200 photos of old buses taken back in 1969. It includes of many now long-gone buses and the companies that ran them. He has other photo sets that include buses and trains. Well worth a look.

Roy

[JimmiB]

Roy,
Thanks for that link. Several photos of buses from Reading, PA which I had driven and several from Lebanon Coach Co. in PA. These were gone by the time I began working in Lebanon. I was the last General Manager of Lebanon Coach and Lebanon Bus companies.