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My First Look at a New Look!
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:13 pm    Post subject: 'Old Looks' Reply with quote

Mr. RT,

In relation to 'Old Look' production, are you asking what models were manufactured at Pontiac, or are you just asking whether they were produced there?

The answer is that all 'Old Looks' (both Yellow and GM) came from the Pontiac plant including the 'Hydra-Matic' and Toroflow' models which were continued through 1968.

However, your 1959 cut-off date is correct as far as genuine heavy duty transit coaches.

The Hydra-Matics and Toroflows (which only appeared to be 'Old Looks' because they shared the front and rear clips of the design) were powered by light duty Chevy engines (Hydra-Matic) and small truck Diesels (Toroflow) and had no other attributes in common with their 'commercial' cousins.

My expertise (for whatever it's worth) begins and ends with 'Old Looks', but there are many other members of this forum that can fill you in on the later history.

Mr. Linsky
"The Green Hornet"
Green Bus Lines, Inc. (Old Look Division), Jamaica, New York

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ripta42
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Age: 40
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 1032
Location: Pawtucket, RI / Woburn, MA

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. T,

Old Look production actually continued through 1969, when the 35-passenger model 3501/3502 was finally replaced by a shorty Fishbowl, model 3301. Production of full-size Old Looks did indeed end in 1959, the same year New Look production began.

Now, a primer on Old Look/New Look model numbers:

T D H 5 3 0 5 A

- - - --- --- -
| | | | | └ A = Air Conditioned (1966-86)
| | | | | N = Non-Air Conditioned (1971-86)
| | | | |
| | | | └ Series (Sequential to # of passengers)
| | | | Odd Number = 102" Wide
| | | | Even Number = 96" Wide
| | | |
| | | └ Number of Passengers
| | |
| | └ E = Electric Propulsion (1940-42)
| | H = Hydramatic Transmission
| | M = Manual Transmission
| |
| └ D = Diesel Engine (1939-67)
| G = Gasoline Engine (1939-71)
| 6 = 6 Cyl. Diesel Engine (1967-86)
| 8 = 8 Cyl. Diesel Engine (1968-86)
|
└ S = Suburban
T = Transit

The last U.S.-built New Look was CTA 9799 in February, 1977. It's preserved by the Chicagoland Historical Bus Museum. GMDD of Canada produced New Looks from 1962 until 1986.

Green Lines #360 was a 1979 GMDD T8H5307A. Quiz - name the engine size, transmission type, passenger capacity, and width of this bus, and whether it was air conditioned.

The "Classic" first appeared as the front clip on the articulated New Look (TA60102N) in 1982; the redesign was necessary to allow for wider front doors to accommodate the greater passenger demand that comes with a larger bus. The first 40' Classic was built in January, 1983, and production remained with GMDD until 1987, when TMC/MCI acquired General Motors' bus-building division. MCI produced the Classic from 1987 until 1993, when they were in turn bought out by NovaBus. Nova discontinued the Classic in 1997.

Classic model numbers are a bit simpler than their predecessor:

T C 4 0 1 0 2 A

- - --- ----- -
| | | | └ A = Air Conditioned (1966-82)
| | | | N = Non-Air Conditioned (1971-82)
| | | |
| | | └ Width (inches)
| | |
| | └ Length (feet)
| |
| └ A = Articulated
| C = Classic
|
└ T = Transit

Flxible developed its own New Look to compete with GM's; kind of the bus version of the Ford Aerostar, built to compete with the Dodge Caravan.

I'll defer explanation of the RTS to RTS_04.
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scedman




Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:55 pm    Post subject: Old Looks Reply with quote

Actually, full sized old looks were built until somewhere around 1964. The TDH 3714, which was a 31 foot, 4-71 powered air ride lasted until about 1964 being built in small numbers. It was the same size as the TDH 3501 but heavy duty.
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Mr RT




Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 102

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike, GBL #360 T8H5307A Quiz ... answer:
T=Transit
8=V8
H=Hydramatic Trans
53=seats
07=series 102
A=A/c equiped
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Hart Bus



Age: 69
Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 1128

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My first memory of a Fishbowl had to be in 1959 or 1960. My mother and I were visiting relatives at their liquour store on Main Street south of the # 7 train, LIRR, the Century (?) movie house.

On the way back north to go the #7 we crossed over 41st Road, when I saw my first fishbowl operating on the Q58. I thought it was a cool design and very futuristic.

I still remember a little sign in windshield that said "Come Ride with us in this New 1959 Bus".
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr RT wrote:
Mike, GBL #360 T8H5307A Quiz ... answer:
T=Transit
8=V8
H=Hydramatic Trans
53=seats
07=series 102
A=A/c equiped


RT,

Allow me to update the above information;

Green Bus Lines 'New Look' #350 to 364 (Ser# M026 to M040) were delivered in 1979 and were manufactured by General Motors Diesel (Canada).

The transmission was not Hydra-Matic but was 'Hydraulic'.

Mr. Linsky
"The Green Hornet"
Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica and Arverne, New York
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ripta42,

In reply to the following paragraph;

Your quote;

The last U.S.-built New Look was CTA 9799 in February, 1977. It's preserved by the Chicagoland Historical Bus Museum. GMDD of Canada produced New Looks from 1962 until 1986.

My reply;

The last Canadian Built New Look was Santa Monica Municipal Bus Lines (Big Blue Bus) # 5180 delivered in 1986, and now a preserved coach by that company.

Mr. Linsky
"The Green Hornet"
etc.
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