BusTalk

[Mr. Linsky]

Pictured below standing in front of the North Shore Bus Co. garage is a 'service car' which was obviously a bus at one time (the full lower panels pretty much prove that).

It is also obvious that this picture was taken possibly almost immediately after the city take over of the company as it is in NYCTS livery with logo and 'Queens Bus Division' lettering.

It was not uncommon years ago for bus companies to convert promising (or low mileage) older equipment into service vehicles (Green Bus Lines did it on at least two 1933 model 'BC' Macks).

They usually carried spare tires, oil and other items for 'field repairs'.

My problem is that I cannot identify the manufacturer (I could take almost a stab in the dark and say that it could be an ACF Brill but only because of the headlight arrangement - and that's iffy! - and it does have a front grill similar to the 1933 model 'UT' Autocar, but Autocar didn't make buses!).

I have searched my 'American Truck and Bus Spotter's Guide' from cover to cover and found nothing even remotely similar.

This calls for Q65A (our resident antique truck specialist) to come up with some kind of an answer!

I would preface this whole essay by saying that the pictured vehicle did not necessarily originate from North Shore.

Photo borrowed for educational purposes only.

Mr. Linsky
"The Green Hornet"
Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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[Q65A]

This rig looks like a cut-down ACF-Brill bus; that front end window arrangement looks as if it originally had come from an ACF-Brill H-9.

[Mr. Linsky]

Bob,

I think we were both on the right track (you more so than me).

Picture below may be just a slightly later version of the H-9.

Notice how the windshield configuration is identical.

Thanks for the footwork.

Picture borrowed with thanks to 'More Bus Memories' for educational use only.

Mr. Linsky
"The Green Hornet"


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[Bill D]

It looks like an ACF H-12-S to me. What puzzles me is the lack of overhang behind the rear wheels, unless this was one of the modifications made.

Bill

[Mr. Linsky]

[Bill D]

Here is a picture of an H-12-S operated by Northeast Transportation. It was originally a Harrisburg unit. Photo courtesy of George Zeiba.





Bill

[Mr. Linsky]

Bill D.

Aside from a special bumper added for pushing on the service car, this is it all right!

Unbelievable!

Great work.

Thanks so much - you get a gold star on this one!

Mr. Linsky
"The Green Hornet"

[ICMC 1982 Flyer D901A]

[Q65A]

It's interesting that North Shore was not a major ACF Brill user.
The North Shore roster published in Motor Coach Age (Apr-May 1977) shows only 3 ACF Brills dating back to 1928; they had mostly Whites, Twins and Yellows, although there was at least one Pickwick on the roster, set up as a transit bus complete with jackknife doors!
This home-built service car probably originally had served as a bus for some other carrier, perhaps Queens Nassau Transit, which was a die-hard ACF Brill user as late as the early 1950's. Looking at the BOT logo and the"Queens Bus Division" lettering, plus the building in the background (which looks to be North Shore's old garage), you'd probably have to date this shot as sometime between NYC takeover of North Shore (1947) and the opening of the Flushing Depot (1950).
To Mr. L's point, old buses served as decent platforms for service vehicles. As a case in point, look at the rear axle rating of a 40' RTS; it likely would be rated at about 23,000 #, since the RTS GVW is listed at about 36,000 #. In truck terms, a cutdown RTS would be a baby Class 8 (defined as GVW > 33,001 #), although a tow truck with a rear-engine placement would be tough to envision; perhaps a "push truck" would be a better name.
You have to tip your hat to the ingenuity of these old time bus companies; if it had wheels and still could run, they somehow managed to use it. (Today's West Coast Choppers has nothing on good old North Shore!)

[Mr. Linsky]

Bob,

The mechanics years ago were 'artists' in the field of both 'seat of the pants' repairs and customized body work (my little article; 'Snow and Ice Removal, The Green Line Way' elsewhere in this forum more than spotlights their talents).

If North Shore Bus Company's phone number was Flushing 9 8100 (which I think it was) then that is very definitely their garage in the picture (I have seen other pictures of the facility and that's it).

To the right of the picture is a typical late thirties GM car (possibly an Oldsmobile), and a very early post war surplus Jeep so I would put the date of the photo sometime in the late 40's.

I can't see why Queens-Nassau (your orange buses) would have given the city one of their service cars - there really was no connection between them at the time.

Here's another possibility although very remote; ACF Brill themselves may have built these vehicles as an accommodation to their customers - and maybe they even threw them in to win an order! - ACF was not a truck builder so anything they would have come up with would have been in the form of a bus or at least a part of one!

As far as an RTS being a service vehicle - you lost me on the specification end of it, and I really can't see the picture - they're just not tough enough and, as you say, the rear engine would present a problem!

Now it would really be interesting to see how the city did come up with this vehicle!

Mr. Linsky
"The Green Hornet"

[Q65A]

Believe it or not, ACF Brill actually did build a very small number of heavy duty trucks from 1931 to 1932; like their competitor, St. Louis Car Co., I suspect that ACF built a little of everything during their long history. According to truck historian and author Albert Mroz, "(In 1931) ACF also built trucks that used Hall-Scott 160 or 175 motors, but only 25 of them were assembled through 1932. These included the ACF TT 175 articulated trucks." Motor Coach Age (Oct.-Nov. 1977) shows a couple of photos of these trucks, including a shot of a 1931 ACF Model T160 wrecker owned by Bee Line.
Mr. L is quite right in wondering why Queens-Nassau TL would have sold an old bus to BOT; I was just engaging in some "historical speculation". (Perhaps back in the late 1940's there was a contemporary equivalent to ABC Bus or Hausman Bus Sales that dealt in used buses...)
Thanks to Mr. L and Bill D for the excellent historical shots!

[scedman]

I think the ACF was from Isle Transportation Co. in Staten Island. NYCTS took them over around 1946. They had a many prewar ACFs, some of the type converted to a service car. Most were replaced by a group of 1947 Whites that were ordered by Isle Transportation and delivered to NYCTS. With North Shore being taken over in 1948 it is easy to imagine that a bus about to be scrapped in Staten Island was converted to a service car and sent over.

[Mr. Linsky]