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Q65A
Age: 66 Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 1769 Location: Central NJ
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Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:06 pm Post subject: Hybrid/Low Floor/Alternative Fuel Trivia |
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1.) Which NYC-area carrier first began operating low floor buses, and with what bus model?
2.) What major chassis design feature distinguishes the Orion VI from the Orion VII?
3.) Which contractor puts the "C" in the DOB's CNG?
4.) Which NYCT bus has greater fuel economy: Orion VII HEV or Orion VII CNG?
5.) How many individual traction batteries do the NYCT Orion VII HEV's have, and how are they distributed?
6.) Which bus has more seats, and by what margin: NYCT Orion VII HEV or NYCT Orion V diesel?
7.) Which bus is taller: NYCT Orion VII CNG or NYCT Orion VII HEV?
8.) When did NYCT begin buying alternative fuel buses, and to what depot were they assigned?
9.) What body feature (rare for modern-day transit buses) did the NYCT Orion VI HEV's have as standard equipment?
10.) What is likely the single biggest maintenance cost savings NYCT will enjoy with HEV's over CNG's?
Good luck! |
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1988 MCI TC40-102A
Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 72 Location: Riverdale aka Liberty Lines Express Land
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Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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4) HEV
6) O5 diesel, don't know the specific margin though
7) CNG
8) 1995 in Gleason (O5 CNGs)
9) Rear window |
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The Port of Authority
Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 118 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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1988 MCI TC40-102A wrote: | 1995 in Gleason (O5 CNGs) |
Actually, the pilot O5 CNG came in 1994 (NYCT 317.)
If you count the first CNG bus ever tested by NYCT, then I believe it was a 1989 (?) Orion I (don't take this to be the official word on this, I'm not quite sure.)
1988 MCI TC40-102A wrote: | 9) Rear window |
It's not really that rare -- I'd say it was "uncommon." The New Flyer x40LFR, the Nova LFS, and the Van Hool A330/AG300 all have rear windows. |
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1988 MCI TC40-102A
Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 72 Location: Riverdale aka Liberty Lines Express Land
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Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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I've actually seen O6s in other cities with the back door right at the back end (behind instead of in front of the back wheel, weird). NYCT didn't have this though, I don't think. |
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The Port of Authority
Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 118 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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1988 MCI TC40-102A wrote: | I've actually seen O6s in other cities with the back door right at the back end (behind instead of in front of the back wheel, weird). NYCT didn't have this though, I don't think. | '
I've even seen some with three doors -- one at the front, one in the middle, and one right at the back end.
NYCT, however, opted for the middle-door option on their Orion VIs. |
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ICMC 1982 Flyer D901A
Age: 38 Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 60 Location: East NY, Brooklyn
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:21 am Post subject: |
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The Port of Authority wrote: | 1988 MCI TC40-102A wrote: | 1995 in Gleason (O5 CNGs) |
Actually, the pilot O5 CNG came in 1994 (NYCT 317.)
If you count the first CNG bus ever tested by NYCT, then I believe it was a 1989 (?) Orion I (don't take this to be the official word on this, I'm not quite sure.) |
Try 1990 TMC RTS-06 CNG #8398, aka Command's #4976, which unfortunately did not make it into MTA Bus
Then again, did that RTS come with a Cummins L10G and a V-730 or a DD50G/V730? |
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ripta42 Site Admin
Age: 45 Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 1035 Location: Pawtucket, RI / Woburn, MA
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:41 am Post subject: |
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1) If airport shuttles count, PANYNJ received their first New Flyer D40LFs in 1991 (and had a demonstrator in 1988); otherwise, it would be RIOC's '94 D40LFs.
3) Keyspan
10) No need to maintain CNG filling stations - and no reliance on 3). |
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Q65A
Age: 66 Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 1769 Location: Central NJ
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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Here are the quiz answers:
1.) Which NYC-area carrier first began operating low floor buses, and with what bus model? Somewhat ironically, it appears that MSBA may have been the first regional bus operator to experiment with low-floor heavy duty transit buses, beginning with the purchase of an Orion II in 1990.
2.) What major chassis design feature distinguishes the Orion VI from the Orion VII? The Orion VI used a ZF drop-center rear axle, which permitted the installation of a flat floor and aisle from front to rear. (By contrast, many LF buses have a “kicked-up” rear floor area, needed to provide sufficient underfloor clearance for a conventional full-floating rear driver.)
3.) Which contractor puts the "C" in the DOB's CNG? A third-party firm named Trillium USA operates the CNG compression and fueling equipment at JG and WF on behalf of NYCT; the natural gas itself may well be purchased from Keyspan.
4.) Which NYCT bus has greater fuel economy: Orion VII HEV or Orion VII CNG? In a study conducted by NYCT at WF and MCH from Oct. 2004 to Sept. 2005, Hale HEV’s averaged 3.19 MPG, as compared with that depot’s non-EGR Orion V diesels, which achieved an average of 2.38 MPG. CNG’s based at WF averaged only 1.70 diesel-equivalent MPG, which was significantly lower than non-EGR diesels based at WF.
5.) How many individual traction batteries do the NYCT Orion VII HEV's have, and how are they distributed? The Orion VII HEV has a total of 46 batteries housed inside two (2) rooftop-mounted battery tubs. Each tub contains 23 lead-acid batteries.
6.) Which bus has more seats, and by what margin: NYCT Orion VII HEV or NYCT Orion V diesel? The Orion V diesel seats 39 (plus 36 standees), while the Orion VII HEV seats 38 (plus 32 standees). Curiously, the Orion VII CNG seats 37, plus 36 standees.
7.) Which bus is taller: NYCT Orion VII CNG or NYCT Orion VII HEV? Orion specs show that the CNG is 135” tall, making it 3” taller than the Orion VII HEV. The HEV is no lightweight, however, as it is 440 lbs. heavier than the CNG unit.
8.) When did NYCT begin buying alternative fuel buses, and to what depot were they assigned? NYCT purchased 31 Orion V CNG’s in 1994, assigning them to JG.
9.) What body feature (rare for modern-day transit buses) did the NYCT Orion VI HEV's have as standard equipment? NYCT’s Orion VI’s were equipped with small offset rear windows, a feature not normally seen on modern NYC-area transit buses.
10.) What is likely the single biggest maintenance cost savings NYCT will enjoy with HEV's over CNG's? Brake maintenance costs are much lower for HEV’s, due to their regenerative braking systems. (By contrast, CNG’s use transmission retarders for supplemental braking.)
References:
New York City Transit (NYCT) Hybrid (125 Order) and CNG Transit Buses (Final Evaluation Results) Barnitt and Chandler, NREL; Nov. 2006
NYCT Operating Experience With Hybrid Transit Buses (APTA/EPRI/EVAA Electric Bus Workshop) Oct. 2002
Analysis of Alternative Fuel Technologies for New York City Transit Buses; NYC Transit Riders Council; Feb. 2000 |
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