BusTalk

[bystander]

It was rush hour that warm afternoon on Connecticut avenue in Washigton DC, and I was aboard a White 788 Northbound to Chevy Chase Circle. It was a limited stop Express bus, and I was about to experience the Washington version of "Express".

As the bus rolled to a stop in the left of two northbound lanes at the Calvert Street light, another 788 rolled up in the right lane and the drivers waved and called out greetings. A man next to me said"Oh,my, Here we go."

"What do you mean,sir?" I asked him.

"Just hold on tight, you'll see." he smiled.

For those who are much younger than the rest of us, the White 788 had an enormous 12 cylinder gas engine under the floor, and a Three Speed manual transmission which, in spite of the bus weighing over 20.00 pounds with all those commuters on board,still could put manners on many of the contemporary automobiles in a Traffic Light Drag Race.

And the light changed. And two air brake vents sneezed simoltainiously and Twenty Four Cylinders tried to out shout the other and two busses roared "Out Of The Hole" at Calvert Street and raced mostly neck and neck up the Avenue. Being that they were both Expresses, they weren't going to be discharging any passengers until Nebraska Avenue.

They made a couple of lights and came to a stop at the third light almost side by side.When the light changed, they were off again.Well, I guess the guy driving the other bus got a little excited because he missed the 1-2 shift and lost his momentum.

The people on our bus cheered and waved as we drew ahead of the other bus and rolled up to the next light.

In Washington, in the Fifties, Washington had a slightly different definition of "Rush Hour"

Don't try this today.

[N4 Jamaica]

An excellent and enjoyable story! Living northeast 1956-9, I knew Connecticut Avenue had the more impressive equipment. I recall Limited bus stop signs in central D.C., but never rode one. Weren't the Connecticut Avenue routes in the L series? So one driver could have yelled, Let's get the L out of here.
Joe

[Mr. Linsky]

N4J,

You'll appreciate this one because you're a local;

When I was a kid (and, I was a kid at one time!), my parents sent me to summer day camp in Far Rockaway.

And, before they bought a place on the beach themselves, I was picked up each morning in Kew Gardens by Logan Coach Company of Ridgewood who was the contractor for the camp.

My bus was #18 - a 1933 or so conventional (motor out front) 20 or so seat Yellow Coach with a nice combination of red and white livery and (are you ready for this?) a 150 horsepower flat head V-8 Cadillac engine (pretty much standard on the smaller Yellows at the time) - oh, and my driver's name was Augie.

There was no contest involved in going in the morning because the buses all came from different places at different times, but the homeward ride was another story.

Logan had a variety of buses including a couple of large ex Greyhounds but the backbone of the fleet were the little Yellows numbered 16, 17, 18, 20 and 21 and they were all assigned to central Queens routes.

All the buses would leave the campgrounds at the same time with the little Yellows starting up what was then known as the Jamaica/Rockaway Turnpike (now Rockaway Boulevard) and that's where the fun began!

I don't know whether the driver's had bets going as to who could make it the fastest to the Belt Parkway from the Nassau line but you sure had to believe that something was pushing their buttons!

Oh, BTW; in those days Rockaway Boulevard was a narrow two lane affair flanked by the abandoned tracks of the old Jamaica Central Railway with marsh reeds as tall as seven feet high.

Anyway, the race was on with all of us kids cheering our drivers and I think we only won once (Augie was rather conservative behind the wheel and ceded to the much faster 21 most of the time).

I'll tell you one thing; those Caddy V-8's could move!

It was a lot of fun and a good memory.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[Hart Bus]

WCA:

Logan still exists as a school bus company as per the attached link:

http://www.loganbus.com/

According to the website, the yard is on Atlantic, just east of the Van Wych.

A google search turns up two other yards, one on Atlantic near the cut-off for
Conduit Blvd and another on up in the Bronx.


ECA

[bystander]

N4 Jamaica: Right. The L series buses ran on Connecticut Ave.The L4 was the base that went straight down The Avenue to Dupont Circle and ended at Federal Triangle (13th & Pennsylvania)
The L2 was a cutback and only went up as far as Nebraska Avenue. It also went across Calvert Street Bridge and down 18th Street.

The Connecticut Avenue Streetcar line (d.1935) went across Calvert Street Bridge as well.

The L3 (racing buses) were the PM Rush Limited Stop and only ran Northbound. (They were named L7 in the morning).

And there was an L5 Limited that came out of Potomac Park (19th & C NW)

They used older busses during Rush, of course, and that's why there were 788's when DC was just starting to get Fishbowls.

Mr. Linsky: Do you know the Cubic Inch displacement of those Underfloor White 12's? I couldn't find my info when I wrote that story.

I am aware of those Caddy Powered Yellows and I'll bet they would move. I'd love to find one today and run a couple of Quarter Mile Drags with it. A 788, also. I wonder if anyone has performance figires on these.

I'll tell you what else is quick. A TGH-3102. Empty. Probably a struggle buggy when full, although I only ever had three other folks on mine. ( I bought it as a toy and never ran a bus in Revenue Service)

Just a thought: I also owned a TDH-4509, a later one that shifted under power.Compared to the others mentioned here, an Old Look is Glacial.
They take forever to get going, but they will always go and go.

I like buses. I guess I'm weird. I always liked weird.

[Mr. Linsky]

bystander,

Everyone is weird in their own way - we just have to find people who have the same kind of weird qualities that we do! (and, here we are!).

You knew right off what Yellows had the Caddy plants because they featured Cadillac's familiar 'Goddess' as a hood ornament.

The first White 12 cylinder was the model '68' which eventually became the '685' and was driven by a massive 225 horsepower 811 cubic inch pancake engine mounted underfloor amidships - this bus was a monster and was capable of carrying 100 passengers in dense traffic at maximum speeds.

The engine was a 'true opposed-piston design' and was actually two 'L' head sixes mounted slightly off-set longitudinally so that the connecting rod heads could be placed side by side on the crank pins of a single crankshaft .

A later improvement to the 12 saw all cylinders and the crankcase as one casting but no further information on displacement could be found.

During my three summer stints as a relief driver for Green Line, I drove virtually every GM Old Look on the property and, of all of them including the 4506's, 4507's, 4509's, 4512's and 5104's, the 5104's (which we called Gondola Cars) were the most agile and limber (I almost won one race against a Carey 4104 going into Idlewild with a 5104).

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[HwyHaulier]

Bystander -

Hey! Great reports! Yes, indeed! I recall how Connecticut Avenue usually in the better equipment...

A curious report I have seen? Recall, with arrival of DCTS, and its group of ten ACF-Brill IC-41 coaches, ex Trailways?
I've seen notes reporting the coaches covering some rush hour Express run on Connecticut Ave.! What a way to run a
City (in this instance, District) Express!

..........................Vern....................

[bystander]

Vern:

The IC-41's were ex-Southern Greyhound that were bought at bargain rates because SGL was dieselizing. DCT didn't care about that because there were Gas Whites forever at that time. Also because they were sitting in SGL's Washington Lot.

And I also have reports of them running Conn. Ave. express. I was told that it was an attempt to revive the old Capital Transit Luxury Coach Extra Fare Service direct to Capitol Hill. This was in the '20s.

Motor Bus Society Covered this service in their issue on Capital Transit. If you want a copy, maybe I can get you one. Just remember, like my 4509, I am somewhat Glacial due to ....well, excuses,excuses.

Mr. Linsky: Thanks for the Engine Stats. I thought they were 8 or 900 cubes. I'll come back to this when I find my literature.

[HwyHaulier]

bystander -

There is no shame in 'fessin' up to "Old Coot" status!

You got actual SoGL fleet numbers on the DCTS Parlors? I thought the coaches were ex VCC/ TWYS? Further, though my own
OEM Memory Chips between my ears may be failing, I don't recall the Hall-Scott "rumble" with those coaches. Think I recall the
clatter of Cummins Diesels...

If Roy Chalk bought gas busses at that late date, he should have turned himself in at a psychiatric facility? Leather crafts are
an easier skill set than running a large metro transit line!

The IC-41 coaches did "long" road work. See my earlier query here. There's a film of the late 1950s - early 1960s
depicting several of the coaches in a cameo role, in DCTS colors, in Manhattan...

Welcome to the "Club"! See you are "low miles" on postings...

.....................Vern.................

[bystander]

Hey, Vern: I may have ALL the answers (Heh-Heh)

All information in this reply is gleaned from the July-September 2003 issue of Motor Coach Aghe, by Motor Bus Society.The article was researched and written by Dave Semindinger and Bob Sauer Jr. i have met both men and I find them to be vast storehouses of knowledge in their own rights, and meticulous researchers, as well. That being said, here we go.......

Fleet # 3-12 ACF Brill IC-41 (In the pictures, they look like AD's and that would explain why you remember Cummins) But it doesn't explain to me why Greyhound blew them out for $800.00 each.
Built-1948, Southeastern Greyhound #'s: M2167,M 2169-71, MM2197, M2101,002,13,24,32.

Quote from Page5
"......Greyhound's Washington Garage on New York Ave had a back lot that was filling up with Southeastern IC-41's made surplus by the new 4104's.Anxious to get rid of gas buses,Greyhound was prepared to sell the Brills for Salvage Value, so DC Transit picked up 10 of them for $8000.00."

Quote from P 16 of the same magazine:
"Also in 1961, DC transit started route L1, an express service fromChevy Chase Circle toCapitol Hill on which a seat was guarenteed for a 50 cent fare.As on Capital Traction's Chevy Chase Coach Line of 1925, at first IC-41's, and later, New Look Suburbans."

Now, when I find my White stuff, maybe I can determine the cubic inch displacement of those later Whites.


BTW- A lot of the 1100 Whites were retro-fitted with Leyland disels. Was that what you heard? I'm sort of sure the IC's stayed Gas, but they do look lie the AD's which were Diesel AND Air Conditioned. At this point, someone who drove them should jump in and settle this.

[bystander]

I'm just sitting here thinking about what I wrote and I decided to comment on Mr. Chalk's mental health.

First of all, A psychological exam would be in order for ANYONE wanting to go into the transit business that was up against an angry Congress and at a time everything was starting to unravel.

In defense of buying gas buses at that time, DC Transit already had the infra-structure to service and feed gas buses. And at $800 a whack, you can buy a lot of gasoline for the difference between that and the cost of even a used Diesel Bus.

Get off the soapbox, fool, and give someone else a chance to answer that

Who,Me?

Yeah, You!!!

[HwyHaulier]

bystander -

Many Thanks! And, what else for us Old Coots to do on rainy days! You will note that showman fell for it, that is,
the cachet of being major domo of the system in our National Capital. Of course he had been "worked over" (family
board, here) before he arrived in town. Notably, N C L wasn't about to get involved with that hot potato transit line...

All right, all right! Hats off to your meticulous genealogy of the DCTS IC-41 coaches. Buying cheap solves many
problems. Little wonder, though, that SoGL wanted out of them, and near to gave them away. Why DCTS didn't
replace the motors? Maybe a low priority project?

On another note. You are thinking of the CTCo (DCTS) 5100- 5200 class of WHITE 1144 coaches. Delivered with gas
motors, which were later replaced in Washington with Leyland Diesel engines. The "foreign power" had its own
signature rattle and clatter, and definitely not Cummins.

Thanks for "mission" of rush hour L1. Didn't know that DCTS line had a lot of baggage going into that operation.

.................Vern................

[bystander]

Grapevine tells me that those IC-41's were incredibly fast. Maybe we should send one to Cecil County Dragway along with the other "fast" buses- namely my old TGH-3102, Mr linsky's Caddy Powered Yellow, a White 788,and Maybe a TDH 3207 with a 6-71 where the Four came out.

Any other nominees?

George

[HwyHaulier]

[Mr. Linsky]

bystander,

Found this ad thanks to eBay for the White 685 - the first to have the 12 cylinder set-up.

Enjoy,

Mr. 'L'