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Vintage Gallery: New York City - Green Bus Lines
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Author Topic: Vintage Gallery: New York City - Green Bus Lines  (Read 2793 times)
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« Reply #50 on: October 01, 2006, 07:54:20 PM »

Mr.Linsky Nice picture of Green lines Bus_942.  It looks like it a 1947 GM TDH-4507. "Pipe"
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« Reply #51 on: October 01, 2006, 08:21:17 PM »

#942 (end of page one) was part of a twenty five bus shipment of 1947 TDH4507's numbered *926 to 950 (ser# 0851 to 0875) and was delivered in July of that year.
These were the first Green Line old looks to have the air circulating vents mounted over the destination signs with the unintended affect of making the buses much more handsome looking.
The most interesting aspect to this order was the fact that they were not built for GBL but for Surface Transportation of New York (the original Surface order was for one hundred buses with ser#'s from 0801 to 0900).
As to why this twenty five wound up with Green Line is anyones guess at this point but I would have to say that some deal must have been struck between the two companies.
Notice the large old fashioned 'city headlamps' (a Surface option) that afforded little 'suburban' illumination and were eventually changed to sealed beams.
Other special 'Surface' features included rear door treadle steps which were not under driver control and allowed the rear doors to close immediately after the last passenger stepped off the bottom step (it was thought that this option would speed service especially during rush hours). These devices were removed after a number of passenger injuries which were usually the result of clothing caught between the doors.
The most notorious of the 'Surface' features was the overhead heating system generating from ducts immediately above the passenger windows and affording virtually no comfort for either riders or drivers.
*#926 was involved in a very serious accident at the Queens end of the Queensborough Bridge sometime in the 1950's. In the mishap, the bus was crushed between a Queensborough Bridge trolley car and a bridge support sending a number of passengers to the hospital, and the bus to a specialist in New Jersey for major repairs (fortunately, GM buses of the era had no chassis' making realignment much easier - a Mack in the same kind of accident could well have been a total loss!).
Several of these buses eventually went to Jamaica and were renumbered to the 200's.
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« Reply #52 on: October 01, 2006, 08:40:33 PM »

Nice Pics, that should be added in the vintage gallery Cheesy
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« Reply #53 on: October 01, 2006, 09:50:21 PM »

A snapshot of Beach 49th Street and Rockaway Beach Blvd, Circa 1947......GBL Arverne yard.

I enlarged the original by 200%, but left the original inset.

What kind of buses are those??? (I'm not telling)

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Dennis
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« Reply #54 on: October 01, 2006, 10:51:04 PM »

Manhattan and Queens... Q-60 @ 157street and 109ave Circa 1939
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« Reply #55 on: October 01, 2006, 10:54:29 PM »

Green Bus Lines lined up at John Adams HS @ 101st. and Rockaway Blvd Circa 1942

Mr. Linsky, can you identify the buses?

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Dennis
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« Reply #56 on: October 01, 2006, 10:57:29 PM »

Green Bus Lines...World's Fair Special @ 82ave and Queens Blvd Circa 1939

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Dennis
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« Reply #57 on: October 01, 2006, 11:56:42 PM »

Mack CM
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« Reply #58 on: October 02, 2006, 12:06:58 AM »

Dennis,
Here is the larger than life version of your 'Worlds Fair' Queens Boulevard buses.
They were 1939 (801 - 825) and 1940 (850 - 859) Mack model CM's.
The 'Arverne Yard' picture; these are part of a 1935 shipment of Mack model 'CX''s  numbered 'G' 501 TO 'G' 535 (Mack only made a total of fifty of these buses).
I'll discuss all of them in further detail later.
You got me (so far) on the John Adams buses - I have to more closely examine the photo.
I'm also having some difficulty on the M & Q's at 109th. Avenue but will keep trying.
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« Reply #59 on: October 02, 2006, 12:13:29 AM »

My legal department tells me that I must give credit where it is deserved.
The #942 photo (GM TDH4507) courtesy of Green Bus Lines archive.
The #824 photo (Mack 'CM') courtesy of the Mack Truck Museum, Allentown, Pa.
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« Reply #60 on: October 02, 2006, 12:13:36 AM »

Dennis nice pictures of the old Green Line Buses. "Pipe"
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« Reply #61 on: October 02, 2006, 12:18:19 AM »

Oh Dennis, (that's what Jack Benny used to say!)
As Lt. Columbo would say; "Just one more thing";
In the Arverne picture there is one 1937 Mack 'CT' hiding in the background!
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« Reply #62 on: October 02, 2006, 12:20:19 AM »

Mr.Linsky. That a nice picture of the 1939 Mack Model CM Bus_824. I remember them buses where still running in the early 1950's. "Pipe"
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« Reply #63 on: October 02, 2006, 12:40:35 AM »

Pipe,
You're absolutely right! the Mack 'CM's' actually ran into the early sixties and had some very interesting features that I will discuss when I'm not so tired!
Mr. Linsky
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« Reply #64 on: October 03, 2006, 01:57:04 AM »

Mr.Linsky,

To post a picture here...

You can type a few words here (in the reply), then find the line on the bottom of the reply box that says Attach: (alongside an empty form field).

Locate the "Browse" button just to the right of that box. It will let you locate where in your computer the picture you want to post is located....

When you find the picture you want (I think you said it was in your Microsoft Picture Manager)
just click on the picture...until the file name of that picture appears in the previously empty form field.

When you are ready, just click send.

I'm not sure if 203 is missing or not, but here are 2, at a reduced size...

Best Regards,
Dennis   
  There may be some other people who were wondering how to post pictures. I was one until a few weeks ago. I had everything right, until I tried to perview my post. Then I found out that the pictures do not appear in the preview. So I thought I was doing something wrong. After you click "post," the pictures appear.
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« Reply #65 on: October 03, 2006, 03:11:47 AM »

Thanks so much,
I got it and, as you can see in the forum, it's working.
Mr. Linsky
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« Reply #66 on: October 05, 2006, 03:56:39 AM »

Manhattan and Queens... Q-60 @ 157street and 109ave Circa 1939
Dennis,
I have examined this picture carefully and logic would dictate that the bus is a Manhattan and Queens 'CT' Mack (circa 1937).
However, the color scheme is wrong - Green Line buses of the era had dark green tops (from the bottom of the window belt) and light grey bottoms.
The bus in this picture is the reverse.
I'll have to investigate further.
Mr. Linsky
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« Reply #67 on: October 05, 2006, 04:10:01 AM »

Green Bus Lines lined up at John Adams HS @ 101st. and Rockaway Blvd Circa 1942

Mr. Linsky, can you identify the buses?

Best Regards,
Dennis
Dennis,
Here again the color scheme is wrong but I'll go out on a limb and say that these buses are probably 1935 Mack CX's. I reached this conclusion considering the squared shapes of the rear windows.
The CX's (G501 to G535) were eventually relegated to school duties and were the primary equipment for routes with narrow streets such as found on the Q37.
BTW; the CX's were the last group of Green liners to have the letter 'G' in front of the bus number.
Another BTW; I'm working on something called 'Green Line, the Mack Years' which I hope to post soon and will have some interesting facts and asides about these buses!
Mr. Linsky
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« Reply #68 on: October 06, 2006, 03:44:26 AM »

GREEN LINE, THE MACK YEARS

The origins of the Mack bus began in a carriage shop along Atlantic Avenue in Brooklyn  at the turn of the century (their premiere offering being a sightseer that ran around Prospect Park as early as 1902). With thirteen seats it was among the first motorized ‘public’ conveyances on record.
While Mack became successful enough in both truck and bus making to move to larger facilities in Allentown, Pennsylvania in 1905 (where they still turn out some of the best trucks in the world), they never forgot their roots and concentrated bus sales in the northeast and particularly New York City. Both Green Bus Lines, and the East Side and Comprehensive Omnibus Corporations were among their biggest prewar customers.
Green Line’s first and largest ever order for new buses (which coincided with the acquisition of their Queens franchises in 1933) were forty-six 28 seat Mack model 6BC3S’s of engine forward design numbered G401 through G446. Included with this order was number G447 which also had 28 seats and was their one and only model 6CL3S (this was a  box like ‘cab over engine’ design that you had difficulty in deciding which way it was traveling).
1934 saw the only order for twenty five model 34B8 Brockways  (similar in design to the ‘BC’ Macks). However, with strong competition from the Mack, Yellow, Twin, Brill and White companies Brockway ceased bus manufacture early on to concentrate on their popular truck lines.
It was back to Mack in 1935 with an order for thirty five 30 seat model 6CX3S’s with front and center ‘accordion’ doors and were the last Macks to have front engines of any type. You could say that this order was almost custom made for Green Line because Mack only produced fifty CX’s in total. These buses were numbered G501 to G535 and were most useful along routes with narrow streets and difficult turns. There were complaints from mechanics concerning difficulties in servicing the C.O.E. engine design and from drivers suffering heat prostration in summer months but the CX’s in general stood up well.
1937 saw the opening of the ‘CT’ era. The CT was the first truly modern 37 seat transit bus with a rounded roof, rear mounted engine and under seat heating. These were also the first Green Line buses to see the elimination of the ‘G’ before the bus number. The CT’s were notably underpowered and struggled with heavy loads especially on hilly terrain. Mack did little to improve the engines due to the fact that production of the CT design had been scheduled to end in 1938 and the engineering department was busy preparing to introduce the ‘CM’ and ‘CO’ models.
For 1937, sixty five model 6CT3S’s were delivered numbered 601 to 635 and 101 to 130. All were of the same familiar dark green and light grey livery except that 101 to 130 carried the flag of the Manhattan and Queens Bus Corporation for service on the newly acquired Queens Boulevard (Q60) route.
For 1938 an additional thirty five model CT-3G’s reached the property and were numbered 701 to 735. The CT-3G’s differed only slightly and mainly in engine performance.
1939 and 1940 brought the even more modern and improved model CM-3G’s to Green Line numbered 801 to 825 and 850 to 859 respectively. The CM-3G’s were the most popular prewar Macks with 1625 produced between 1939 through 1943. Of special interest was the air actuated clutch which eliminated the clutch pedal and provided extremely smooth shifts.
All Green Line 800’s were decorated in special 39/40 Worlds Fair livery and featured the familiar Trylon and Perisphere logos.
World War II curtailed delivery of new equipment but a contract for the first thirty-five post war models was signed with Mack. However, a crippling labor dispute closed down production for nearly six months in 1946 and the order was lost to GM which, in turn, started Green Line, the GM Years!
Photos to follow.
Mr, Linsky


 
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« Reply #69 on: October 06, 2006, 03:52:02 AM »

Green Line model 'CX' # 514
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« Reply #70 on: October 06, 2006, 03:57:50 AM »

Green Line 1935 Mack model 'CX'
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« Reply #71 on: October 06, 2006, 03:59:42 AM »

Green Line model 'CT3G' Mack (1938)
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« Reply #72 on: October 06, 2006, 04:01:42 AM »

Green Line model 6CT3S Mack (Manhattan and Queens) 1937
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« Reply #73 on: October 06, 2006, 04:03:53 AM »

Green Line model 'BC' Mack (1933) (They say a picture is worth a thousand words - I say this one is worth a million!).
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« Reply #74 on: October 06, 2006, 04:06:58 AM »

Green Line model '6CL3S' Mack (1933)
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« Reply #75 on: October 06, 2006, 02:59:56 PM »

Mr.Linsky. Very good  information about the Mack Buses and Green Bus Lines. I never know that Mack made Buses in Brooklyn N.Y. Mr.Linsky did you drive any of them Mack Buses. I don't remember any of them Mack Buses. I Guss they where all retired by the 1950's. I like looking at the pictures of old Mack Buses. Thank you for posting them. "Pipe"
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« Reply #76 on: October 06, 2006, 08:41:08 PM »

Mr.Linsky. Very good  information about the Mack Buses and Green Bus Lines. I never know that Mack made Buses in Brooklyn N.Y. Mr.Linsky did you drive any of them Mack Buses. I don't remember any of them Mack Buses. I Guss they where all retired by the 1950's. I like looking at the pictures of old Mack Buses. Thank you for posting them. "Pipe"
PIPE,
In answer to your question as to whether I ever drove any of the Green Line Macks; at the time I worked summer relief in 59, 60 and 61 virtually all of the ‘CT’s’ had gone either to Jamaica or Triboro (with the exception of two that were converted to ‘ice breakers’). What was left of the ‘CM’s’ were relegated to the Rockaway division (Rockaway always got the dregs of the fleet!).
We usually drove the ‘4507’s’ (either 926 to 950 or 301 to 310). 301 to 310 were a later model that arrived in 1949 and were equipped to Green Line specs (unlike 926 to 950 which were built for Surface Transportation).
Our runs were unscheduled starting at Queens Boulevard in Elmhurst and traveling down Woodhaven/Crossbay into Rockaway and then over to Riis Park.
PIPE, because you’re one of my biggest fans (actually, I think you’re my only fan) I’ll tell you a couple of stories that I think you’ll appreciate!
We had a starter by the name of John Devlin (we called him ‘father John’). Father John reminded me of the ‘Grim Reaper’ in that he always wore an elegant long black coat with a shiny gold badge on his hat. We also swore that he set his watch by Greenwich Mean Time because he was always right on the second!
If you ran even a minute ‘hot’ Father John would catch you. He’d walk up to your drivers window in the street and have his gold plated pocket watch in his palm and, in slow motion, he’d look down at the watch, then look up at you, then look down at his watch again and then look you right in the eye and say “you’d rob the poor box out of the church if you could”! Of course, everybody laughed it off and John wasn’t really a bad guy because he never turned anybody in (and we all respected him for that!).
Then there were the governors (I don’t mean the ones in Albany). The governors, also known by their trade name ‘Speed Limiters’, prevented vehicles from exceeding a set speed.
The Macks never had them merely because no Mack bus could have ever reached any dangerous speed! But when the GM Diesels came upon the scene (1946) it was a different story. All Green Line GM buses were equipped with these devices and they were set generally for forty-five miles per hour.
Somehow or another the drivers found out that by pushing a bus over the limit ‘kinetically’ on a steep hill the governor could be broken, and that’s just what they did on the Q37 line.
The Q37 started at Queens Boulevard by the old Kew Gardens Hospital, went around and up 80th. Road to Park Lane South. and then over the crest of a long steep hill to Metropolitan Avenue. It was that long downhill run that did it!
Once the limiter was broken there was no telling how fast these Diesels could go but they sure found out on the Q10 line between the Federal Building and the main terminal at what is now JFK airport (some drivers swore they hit eighty!).
It seemed as though all the drivers new which buses had the broken governors and the mechanics, who also new, never did anything about them until just before PSC inspections!
Hope you enjoyed the anecdotes (there are plenty more where they came from!).
Mr. Linsky




 
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« Reply #77 on: October 07, 2006, 12:42:38 AM »

Manhattan and Queens... Q-60 @ 157street and 109ave Circa 1939
Dennis,
I have examined this picture carefully and logic would dictate that the bus is a Manhattan and Queens 'CT' Mack (circa 1937).
However, the color scheme is wrong - Green Line buses of the era had dark green tops (from the bottom of the window belt) and light grey bottoms.
The bus in this picture is the reverse.
I'll have to investigate further.
Mr. Linsky

Dennis,
I was wrong - the color scheme is correct and this is a Mack '6CT3S' (1937), and don't ask me what the number is - my eyesight isn't that good!
Mr. Linsky
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« Reply #78 on: October 07, 2006, 01:03:27 AM »

Mr.Linsky. Am very happy to be one of you biggest fans. I enjoy reading you stories. I was a dispatcher like "Father John" But I was called  PIPE or THE PIPE by my drivers. Anytime I had to talk to a driver I would always walk to the drivers window and talk to him/her with respect. What I had to say to a driver was between him/her and me not the passengers. All my drivers gave me the best respect. I hardy wrote any one up. I know what you mean with the governors that why I liked driving the OLD buses some of then could move very fast. "Pipe"
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« Reply #79 on: October 07, 2006, 04:24:23 PM »

Mr. Linsky,

I thought that being 6'5" and 300lbs would make me your biggest fan! Ha-ha

If I have to take third place in the fan competition, Pipe and BK are good company to be with!

You'll be surprised to note that Joe T. has posted more pictures on usenet (and made available on this site by BK) and one of which is a former GBL Old look as (shown below). I hope he will soon post another shot of this bus sitting curbside, photographed from the right front looking back...

Best Regards,
Dennis
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« Reply #80 on: October 07, 2006, 07:29:15 PM »

Mr. Linsky,

I thought that being 6'5" and 300lbs would make me your biggest fan! Ha-ha

If I have to take third place in the fan competition, Pipe and BK are good company to be with!

Thank you Dennis. "Pipe"
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« Reply #81 on: October 08, 2006, 12:34:25 AM »

Dennis,
Thanks for the compliment - and I do count you as one of my best fans as well (I don't know how I deserve to have fans in the first place, but.........)

Great picture of ex Green Line #112, a 4512-ser#0559 (1954 air suspension job) that went to Hoboken Transportation Company in June of 1967
This operator wasn't heavy into livery but most of the others did readorn their buses.
I had occasion to alit at Newark Airport sometime in the late sixties and standing right in front of the terminal was a 4512 that had obviously just been repainted.
It had the tell-tail marks of a used bus and I wanted to see if I could discern its origin.
Using the oldest trick in the book, I stood at a certain angle and in a certain light at the side of the bus and was able to easily see the shadows of the Green Line livery and name under the paint.
If you want to have a good cry, take a look at how the ones that went to Kent State University Campus Bus System wound up! (at least they were still breathing in 2003!).
For the record; the Jersey operators that these buses went to in addition to Hoboken were; Cape Bus Co. (ex 106), Dominick Raimando, Inc. (ex 107), Montgomery Bus Corp. (ex 108), JRM Bus Co. (ex 110), Edward D. Smith Bus Company (ex 114) and J.S. Bus Corp. (ex 115)
Mr. Linsky

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« Reply #82 on: October 08, 2006, 06:36:02 PM »

                                           Accidents Will Happen

I am sure that over the years Kew Gardens has had its share of vehicular mishaps, as is the case most everywhere else. On the humorous side; a young fellow was speeding down Metropolitan Avenue between 83rd and Lefferts attempting to pass a trolley car and not realizing that there was a trolley coming in the opposite direction. To make a long story short, he survived unscathed but went home in a tall narrow Buick! In my time (circa 1940-1960) however, two accidents stand out vividly in my mind, and neither was humorous! Both occurred with buses in the early 50's, and both sent passengers to the hospital.

The first involved a lady who lived somewhere in the vicinity of Metropolitan Avenue and commuted one stop to her store by Green Line (Q10) bus each day alighting at Cuthbert Road. As she stepped off at the rear exit on this particular occasion her coat became caught in the doors as they closed, the bus started and she was dragged a short distance. I would have to imagine that her screams and those of other passengers alerted the driver to stop. Fortunately, her injuries were minor and she returned to work a few days later.

Now, as to the cause of this accident; the bus involved (a twin to # 942 shown elsewhere in this forum) was part of a 1947 order and was equipped with a rear door treadle step. The rear door treadle step, which was not under driver control, allowed the rear doors to close immediately after the last passenger cleared the bottom step. It was thought that this feature would expedite bus movement especially during rush hours. As a result of this incident, the Bus Company removed all treadle step devices from its fleet.

The second accident involved Green Line Q10 bus #364. To set the scene; there was a large construction crane parked parallel to the curb on Kew Gardens Road at 83rd. Avenue and I believe it was in the process of demolishing an abandoned house on the corner as it was loading debris to a dump truck parked ahead of it. The bus, a '5104' heavy with rush hour commuters, and pushing its 6V-71 Diesel at full throttle, ascended the steep Lefferts hill and made the left turn to Kew Gardens Road. Just as it was about to pass the crane its operator swung the boom in toward the property which, in turn, swung the rear of its cab, which carried tons of steel ballast with it, out into the path of the bus.

In the outcome, three passengers seated on a bench over the right front wheel sustained critical injuries, and it was no contest for the bus itself, which was towed to the body shop in need of a completely new front clip! I am uncertain as to where blame was placed in this incident, but I would have to say that both drivers could have shared it!
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« Reply #83 on: October 08, 2006, 07:47:03 PM »

Mr.Linsky,

As I've said before regarding buses, I love all things Green! As a 5 year old in the early 60's...I started to notice buses and attempted to memorize the differences between Makes, Models and changes in the models from one year to the next. I can't say that I recall Rockaway Specials leaving Queens and Woodhaven for Riis Park, but... having spent several summers at the beach at my grandmothers bungalow in Arverne and at the beach at Riis Park, that I do remember all of the beat up buses GBL owned seemed to be in either Rockaway...or on the Q-7 and Q-9 routes, with Rockaway being the winner in the antique contest.

Something was different looking I thought to myself... The 300's had paired windows and nicer looking paint. I believe there were 900's with a darker, dirtier look to them. Keep in mind, this is what I thought back then, not now, which was confirmed by all the recent pictures. What I remember most, was not so much the buses at Riis Park, but ones parked in a small circle by a church on Rockaway Beach Blvd and about B118-B120 streets...possibly on a layer-over. They looked like they were hit by torpedoes from U-boats, right where they were parked. Today, I'm now thinking some were the 1938 or so Macks, after reading your post about them being in service till the  60's.

Another thing I noticed... Some GBL Old Looks were still looking and running good, even after 15+ years of service, while others were replaced much sooner. I may be wrong, but it seems like the last batch of Old Looks were gone by age 10.

On a funny note: I remember the GMC New Looks having the GBL (Courtesy-Safety-dependability?)side emblems featuring pictures of the Old Looks....while the recycled(circa 1979) Old Looks had the same emblems, except featured New Look buses!

PS: Pipe, I got your PM and Thank You!

Best Regards,
Dennis
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« Reply #84 on: October 08, 2006, 10:25:27 PM »

Actually, I have become a big fan of Mr Linsky. Like I mentioned before, I grew up at 127th Street & 103rd Road in the early sixties, having the Q41 pass by day after day. That`s how I became a bus fan. Mr. Linsky, do you remember a driver on the Q41 at that time, he always seemed to have Old Look #925. I knew him as "Mr. Artie", Anytime he saw me staring at the bus going by, he always waved to me.

Free Transfer, I also remember the Courtesy, Dependability stickers on the  sides of the buses. I don`t remember which bus they used for the old looks, but the stickers on the New Looks featured bus #403

Joe
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« Reply #85 on: October 08, 2006, 11:23:05 PM »

Joe,

I almost (in my last reply) called Mr.Linsky...Mr. Green.  (LOL)

Heres something for you to ponder....
We are close in age. You are 49, I'm 47.
We both grew up in the same area, but at different ends of the Q-41. Originally from Ozone Park and Howard Beach, I moved to Richmond Hill in 1981, when I got married.
Every school day, I'd take a Q-11 to JHS-202 and later a Q-11 or Q-41 to John Adams.

I never had the pleasure of riding a GBL Old Look since becoming a certified bus nut/fan.
Usually, I'd end up either getting on whatever pulled up after an Old Look pulled out or we'd pull up next to one on the Q-7 or Q-21.

I've seen them, though....just couldn't get on one. I've even seen them on the Q-21, Q-22, Q-7,
Q-37 and Q-9. Call me crazy, but I'd swear I've seen them on the Q-41 with the curtain that said...Q-41 ARCHER AVENUE, not Q-41 JAMAICA-LINDENWOOD, like on the New Looks.

The last time I remember actually riding one was on the Q-11, back in 1966 or 67. 2 things happened on that trip that made it memorable. One, was watching the driver run his hand through the big burlap bag of change (laying on the floor) under the farebox and thinking he got to keep all of that money. The other was missing the stop to my grandmothers house at Sutter Ave....I couldn't find the rear exit door fast enough...I thought somebody moved it! It was supposed to be in the middle right?

I did manage to get one foot in the door of one as a young adult. Walking to Crossbay from John Adams, I found one sitting at the stop by White Castle on the Q-112. I figured, ok, I'll just take the Q-112 to Jamaica and catch the Q-41 home. The SOB yelled at me to get off the bus and shut the doors...he was on break. My consolation prize was catching a brand new Canadian GM #301 on the Q-11 home...and the air worked!

Twenty years later I take my sons to the trolley museum in Branford,Ct....
We found a GMC Old Look in the back and they said it was ok to walk in it and look around.
I got 2 steps up and attacked by hundreds of bees living in the bus! I should have known
it wasn't going to be easy.

Well, anyway.....Thanks to people like Mr.Linsky, BK, Joe T,Pipe, and many others...I'm finding out 
Old Looks weren't much different inside than early New Looks.

Best Regards,
Dennis


     

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« Reply #86 on: October 09, 2006, 01:10:10 AM »

Dennis,
I first became interested in buses when my father (who was both a Green Line ‘investor’ and company surgeon) used to take me along with him to the old 150th. St. garage back in the mid forties to have lunch with my uncle Bill (Cooper). They always had some kind of business to discuss afterward and I would be invited to look at the buses on the floor.
To this day, I can’t explain the fascination – maybe it was how rugged they were or the sounds they made or their different colors – I don’t really know! And what was even more interesting to me were the junked ones in the yard some of which I remember as being old bright red Triboro ACF’s (that still sticks in my mind).
Anyway, let’s get to the points of your letter; our runs began at the old Elliot Avenue storage lot, and were marked ‘special’ with our only pickups being at Jamaica and Liberty Avenues. We made two round trips in the morning and another two in the evening (deadheading the opposite way on each trip). We spent our lunch layovers at the diner at 116th. Street and Beach Channel Drive.
This job (so to speak) was only weekends during the summer and, if it rained, we were out of luck!
The buses that you saw on Rockaway Beach Boulevard had to be the very last of the 700’s (1938 CT Macks) or possibly the 800’s (39/40 CM Macks). The 800’s were kept up pretty well and were even given the original 1947/48 livery change but the CT’s that hadn’t already gone to Jamaica, which I’m sure are the ones you’re talking about, were on their way down the drain! (as you can see in the picture of #716 in this forum).
Regarding the old looks; by 1960 virtually all of the 4506’s (901 to 925 and 201 to 210) had gone to Jamaica. The buses we drove (mostly 4507’s 926 to 950 and 301 to 310) were still going pretty strong and the upper 300’s (1950 4509’s 311 to 345 and 1952 5104’s 351 to 365) had plenty of years left in them.
You mention recycled 1979 old looks and I think you may be mistaken. The last new old looks purchased were 1959 TDH 5106’s numbered 151 to 160. I believe all the old looks were gone by the end of the sixties to make way for the influx of ‘fishbowls’ but I could be in error.
Bear in mind Dennis that pretty much after 1961 I have to go by records because my day to day involvement ended and I had to buckle down with my education (although I always kept an eye on what was going in the street!).
You mention the old and new look decals; obviously, if an old look was repainted after the era of the fishbowl began they used fishbowl logos (what can I tell you?).
I have one additional comment to make; I can almost understand my fascination with the ‘real steel’ machines of years ago but, for the life of me, I can’t understand what these youngsters see in the buses of today! I don’t mean to discourage them but we’re talking about what amounts to fiberglass boxes with no character – that’s probably what fascinated me – the ‘character’ and the ‘personalities’ that the old buses had! Beats me!
My best to you as always Dennis.
Mr. Linsky


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« Reply #87 on: October 09, 2006, 02:18:29 AM »

Mr. Linsky, do you remember a driver on the Q41 at that time, he always seemed to have Old Look #925. I knew him as "Mr. Artie", Anytime he saw me staring at the bus going by, he always waved to me.

Phantom909,
Of course, I remember #925 very well but I can't say that I remember a driver on the Q41 by the name of 'Artie'.
I wasn't too friendly with the 'Jamaica Terminal' group. Most of the drivers I knew drove Q10, Q60 and Q37 because I was 'based' in the Kew Gardens section of the borough.
Thanks for asking.
Mr. Linsky

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« Reply #88 on: October 09, 2006, 10:40:03 PM »

Mr. Linsky, thanks for replying, and as Dennis said thanks to you, Pipe, Joe T. BK, and everyone else for the stories and photos of GBL

And Dennis, I went to Richmond Hill High School, you are correct that the original destination signs said Q41 Archer Ave. The red isgn would say X-Bay Blvd & 157th Ave. For years I thought that Cross Bay Blvd was named X-Bay Blvd! I don`t remember the last GBL Old Look I ever rode, but the last Old Look I did ride on was a Queens Transit bus #854 (IIRC), on the Q25/34 going to Queens Colloege in 1976.

I belong to BERA Trolley Museum also, but I haven`t gotten the nerve to get on the old look in the back, if I do, I`ll bring a can of RAID with me.

Joe
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« Reply #89 on: October 10, 2006, 01:13:18 AM »

Lord have mercy, I love this site!
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« Reply #90 on: October 10, 2006, 01:22:03 AM »

Lord have mercy, I love this site!
Me too. "Pipe"
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« Reply #91 on: October 10, 2006, 05:02:21 PM »

To all interested parties;

Do you love the whole site or just the Green Bus Lines end of it?
BTW; Thanks to everyone for your interest in my work - I never had the pleasure to see the 2000 issue of Motor Coach Age featuring Green Line but I have to believe that the information that I have rendered in total thus far has to run a close second (at least) to their article.
I would also like to think that I might have had something to do with BTN opening this special forum and the new Green Line gallery (which I still can't figure out how to get a picture in!).
I think I better stop now before my head gets to large to fit through the door (only kidding).
Thanks agian.
Mr. Linsky
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« Reply #92 on: October 10, 2006, 06:32:14 PM »

Lord have mercy, I love this site!
Me too. "Pipe"

Your not the only one Cheesy
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« Reply #93 on: October 11, 2006, 01:28:06 AM »

I call this ‘Ye Old Fare Boxes and Change Carriers’.
You youngsters may not remember but bus drivers in the days of yore actually made change and ‘hand cranked’ coins through their fare boxes along with coordinating transfers, shifting gears, opening and closing doors and, with all of this, managing to steer the bus in the right direction (usually!).
For decades Green Bus Lines used a model ‘D’ ‘Johnson’ manual fare box which was affixed to a post at the dashboard in close proximity to the driver’s seat. These machines (which dated originally from 1909) were considered to be the ‘DC3’s’ of their ilk and were so rugged, well built and precise that they virtually never needed repair. Passengers would drop coins at the top of the box which the operator could see zigzagging down a shoot to a set of trap doors. Once enough coins accumulated at the doors the driver would then push a lever to send them to a counting mechanism. In the case of manual operation the driver would  hand crank the coins through the counter and scoop them out from a hopper at the bottom of the box (NYCTS used the same machine but modified to crank electrically (for more information on the model ‘D’ accompanied by some very interesting pictures go to www.johnsonfarebox.com and scroll to The Story of the Johnson Fare Box Company).
At sometime in the late fifties Green Line decided to go modern with the purchase of the all new ‘Grant Electro-farer’. The Electro-farer, which stood on its own special stanchion, resembled a pinball machine with a large viewing window and a maize that the coins had to travel down to be counted and sorted into its ‘built in’ change carrier below (actually, it looked and sounded more like Robbie the Robot from the movie ‘Forbidden Planet’ – at least the writer thought so). Each denomination of coin would make a different tone of chime and the drivers became so accustomed to these sounds that they could focus more of their attention to driving as fares were being collected.
I mentioned the fact that the Electro-farer had its own ‘built in’ change carrier. This convenience signaled the end of the era in which drivers had to carry their own change makers.
The most common change carriers of the day were also manufactured by Johnson and usually had one tube each for quarters, nickels, dimes and pennies (they were considered to be a starter set and were just about the same as the Good Humor drivers used to carry).
But then there were the more sophisticated models manufactured by the McGill Company. The McGill machines (and that’s what they were) came in ‘modular’ form and could be custom constructed to meet any change vending need. You started with the two ends (each with a belt hook) and then added what tubes you required. There were drivers that had as many as eight sections.
The most unique feature of the McGill was the fact that you could adjust the delivery system up to five coins at a time (in other words, when the fare was thirteen cents and a passenger needed change for a nickel you could adjust the machine to flip out five pennies at once. These adjustable devices came in very handy as the fares began to increase from a nickel to seven cents, to a dime, to thirteen cents and so on.
Now I think you can see that years ago driving a bus wasn’t quite as easy as it looked!
Mr. Linsky

 
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« Reply #94 on: October 12, 2006, 01:17:06 AM »

Mr.Linsky. Keep writing your stories about the GOOD OLD DAYS. I like reading your stories and so do a lot of other Bus Fans. I think this is a very good topic about Green Bus Lines. I do remember the Electro-Fare Boxes on the Green Lines. I think that Queens Transit had them too. I don't think that the New York City Transit had them. I all so remember the McGill Company Changer too. A lot of Senior drivers from all transit company's use them. They where  better to work with then the ones that the Good Humor Man had. "Pipe"
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« Reply #95 on: October 12, 2006, 03:31:27 AM »

Pipe, this one's for you!!!!!
                 

                    SNOW AND ICE REMOVAL, THE GREEN LINE WAY

Contained within every franchise agreement between the City of New York and private bus lines was a clause stipulating that the operators would be responsible for the removal of snow and ice from all exterior passenger staging areas including bus stops within their franchise.
Accomplishing this task in the early days was ‘primitive’ to say the least and generally comprised the use of modified stake trucks filled with cinders (a byproduct of coal fired furnaces and in plentiful supply at the time) and good shovel teams to spread the ashes while braving the severest of elements. Green Bus Lines' earliest road maintenance fleet included a Mack, a Sterling, an F.W.D., and a Walters (all of late twenties to early thirties vintage).
This system seemed to suffice into the mid fifties but as populations grew and the number of major snowstorms increased it was thought that a more efficient method of removal and manicuring had to be developed.
Otto Schmidt, long time chief mechanic and innovator for Green Line came up with an idea that was so phenomenal (for the day) that PBL’s and municipal operators from over the entire northeast came to make notes.
Taking a Mack model CT (1937) from the scrap heap and stripping the interior of all seats and hardboard panels was the first step. The next was to remove part of the steel flooring between the front and rear wheel wells (leaving only a narrow catwalk on each side and a loading area at the rear), rearranging what chassis cross members might have interfered with the opening and toughening the rear suspension to support added weight.
All window areas behind the rear doors were reinforced and covered in sheet metal both inside and out.
A heavy gauge steel wall was spot welded across the body just in front of the rear wheel wells and an opening was cut at the lower center for the installation of a ‘sluice’ type gate which could be raised and lowered on a track by a series of pulleys.
The final touch to the steel work came with the cutting of the roof for a large hatch over the center of the enclosure.
In addition to the flashings lights and other markings that were required on such emergency vehicles, Mr. Schmidt personally rebuilt and ‘supercharged’ what was originally a very meager power plant for the heavy duty service that would be required of it.
As each snow storm developed the bus was driven to the Department of Sanitation facility at Richmond Hill Circle (130th. Street off South Conduit Avenue) and filled with cinders through the roof hatch from a hopper above.
As the bus traveled the routes the sluice gate would be raised to allow enough ashes to be spread under the bus by the crew at each stop. If it were necessary, the men would also cut paths through high mounds of snow left at curbs by plows.
The system worked well but was short lived only because ashes became obsolete as oil fired furnaces proliferated and new automatic spreading equipment was developed for the mixtures of sand and salt now used.
Mr. Linsky







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« Reply #96 on: October 12, 2006, 02:45:50 PM »

Mr.Linsky. I found this photo on subwaywebnews. 1948 GM TDH-4507. was turned in to a Snow Fighter. When I started in Flushing Depot in 1971 they where still using it. "Pipe"
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« Reply #97 on: October 14, 2006, 02:06:04 PM »

Green Line GM Model TDH 5104 (1952) #361 on a Q8 run below (Notice the rear of a 1937 Mack model 'CT' just behind it).
The 5104's were the first 40 footers at Green Line and were nicknamed 'Gondola Cars' by the drivers. A short retraining course was required because of the extended wheelbase.
Picture courtesy of Green Bus Lines archive.

Comment; Notice the elbows of passengers out side the windows (a very dangerous practice that caused one tradgedy on the Q7 Rockaway Boulevard line in the fifties).
Queens-Nassau Transit Lines solved this problem by ordering a three quarter movable window with the bottom section stationary on their paired window old looks. (a GM option at the time).

Mr. Linsky
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« Reply #98 on: October 14, 2006, 04:47:50 PM »

Mr. Linsky. The first 40 foot bus where the 1948 GM TDH-5101 Buses 4500's where run by the New York City Board of Transportation. These where made for the New York City. I DON'T know the owner is of the photo.(It not mine) "Pipe"
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« Reply #99 on: October 14, 2006, 08:43:21 PM »

Pipe,

I think you may have misunderstood the caption. The #361 (1952) was part of the first 40 foot order for Green Line (I didn't mean that it was the first forty footer ever).
Your picture of NYCTS #4525 is great! (regardless of where it came from!).  I remember these buses very well and, if I'm not mistaken, they were a shade longer than forty feet to compensate for the extra wide front doors. You may also note that they are 102 inches wide (easy to tell by the 6 inch seperation between the rear windows, and the greater space between the air vents under the windshield).
Green Lines 'Gondola Cars' were an oddity at 96 inches in width and only a handful were manufactured.
Funny how memories return after so many years; I now remember that sometime about 1951 GM lent one or two '5100' series demonstrators to Green Line, Triboro and Jamaica (they may have been the same buses that were shared alternately by the three companies).
They had red bottoms and white or cream color tops.
The purpose was not to convince these companies to by GM products (as they were already good  customers) as much as it was to see if forty footers would be practical for their routes.
Green line purchased a total of only 25 '5100' series buses (351 to 365 & 151 to 160).
Keep those pictures coming because I've run out of stories!
Mr. Linsky
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