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R.I.P Orion V 306
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Author Topic: R.I.P Orion V 306  (Read 2564 times)
FutureKBArticOP
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« on: August 03, 2006, 11:16:00 PM »

Today I saw this bus hooked up to a wrecker on Greenpoint Ave. The words "MTA New York City Transit" were scratched off. What was odd is that this wasn't a TA wrecker or Mike's Towing
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PC2871
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« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2006, 09:30:57 AM »

I wonder what the Casey Stengel get to replace this bus?
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« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2006, 10:30:47 AM »

I wonder what was wrong with it and if anyone got any pics.

I did notice Orion 525 is now at Stengel with CS stickers. So maybe that is the one replacing it, along with the other 3 Orions that bit the dust (274,278 and I forget the third...263 I think).
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« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2006, 10:38:06 AM »

I wonder what was wrong with it and if anyone got any pics.

I did notice Orion 525 is now at Stengel with CS stickers. So maybe that is the one replacing it, along with the other 3 Orions that bit the dust (274,278 and I forget the third...263 I think).


Yeah, I've noticed that Orion 05.501 #523 and #525 are back at Casey Stengel. If this keeps up, then ALL of the Orion 05.501 #505-522 and #524 will head back to Casey Stengel. Wow, four 1993 Orions have now been scrapped (or will be). This could get interesting for Casey Stengel and Gun Hill.


Ray
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« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2006, 12:02:53 PM »

I knew this had to be a scrap cause their was no farebox. What I was really hoping is it was just going for a repaint and some heavy duty maintenance. If the O5's in QV go back to CS what does QV get? Their aren't that 1991 TMC's to spread around anymore.
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« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2006, 07:18:32 PM »

A whole bunch of orions are in crosstown at least 10 o/s for good,most from Stengel., Numbers later tonight or tomorrow ,I have to find them.
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« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2006, 10:04:29 PM »

Too bad about 306.  I think I might have ridden that bus a couple times, or have seen it.

I also saw 525 today, I think on the Q20(A/B).  It still had its lugnut arrows from its time at Queens Village.
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« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2006, 12:10:32 AM »

The CS Orion's that were recently retired all had severe engine problems. Maintenance is not spending any more money on first generation Orion's and some 500's that have major engine issues, unless they are on warranty. 

BTW, 546 was retired three weeks ago due to the same problem.  Since I have not seen it on the B/O line at CS this week, I believe it is resting at Crosstown awaiting the scrapper to pick it up.

North Shore
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« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2006, 12:34:07 AM »

Most of the re-powered Orion 5's have just about had it. The engines have absolutely no power. Getting out of a bus stop is an adventure. Some are still good. It seems like the engine is not getting enough fuel. Can any maintenance people who might read this, shed some light on the subject? I have recently driven 199 & 188 (today) and they were satisfactory. They were originally ours (CS), then went to Manhattan, and now they are back. Is it the way that they are maintained, or is it an ageing thing?

Also, saw 519 with Stengel stickers and lug nut arrows today at 39th Ave. & Lippman. Those 500's are a big improvement over the 2xx & 3xx's.
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« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2006, 12:46:05 AM »

The CS Orion's that were recently retired all had severe engine problems. Maintenance is not spending any more money on first generation Orion's and some 500's that have major engine issues, unless they are on warranty. 

BTW, 546 was retired three weeks ago due to the same problem.  Since I have not seen it on the B/O line at CS this week, I believe it is resting at Crosstown awaiting the scrapper to pick it up.

North Shore

Now this would be a serious problem, considering that it is rare that the MTA retires a bus from a production order before age 12, unless it burned down or was totaled. (The only other MTA-ordered PRODUCTION-MODEL buses that I can recall didn't make 12 are the O6s.)

Yet another reason why the MTA should junk Orion...the 1995 Orions are dropping ahead of the 1993 TMCs. (Something tells me 546 isn't the only 1995 O5 that has been retired.)
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« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2006, 12:48:46 AM »

I noticed the 1993 Orions have aged rapidly since they were repowered. Looks like those Orions are now on their last legs like the 1991 TMC repowers, they were pretty solid buses in their earlier years with the 6v92TA engines.
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« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2006, 12:50:06 AM »

I knew this had to be a scrap cause their was no farebox. What I was really hoping is it was just going for a repaint and some heavy duty maintenance. If the O5's in QV go back to CS what does QV get? Their aren't that 1991 TMC's to spread around anymore.

It looks as though buses are being pulled off the scrapline to replace them (but are buses being yanked from summer hold to make pullout?). However, this would not become a serious issue unless the 1993 AND 1995 Orions start dropping en masse. (Simply put, there are fewer spares, in addition to the summer hold.)
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« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2006, 12:59:02 AM »

522 is indeed back at CS.  Saw it on the Q13 last week.
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« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2006, 02:18:33 AM »

the scrap 1993 are as follows 263 274 278 284 and 306 and now 1995 Orion 546. I understand 546s engine just quit on it.(Blown Engine) CS is always short on buses regardless. It looks like QV will return the 500s back to CS. Interesting.
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« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2006, 04:47:04 PM »

A lot of OC Transpo's 1991-92 Orion V's are also being retired, even ahead of 1990 D40HF's and 1989 and 91 MCI classics. 
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« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2006, 04:50:21 PM »

Looks like I'll be keeping another list, huh? LOL!


1993 Orion 05.501 (5): 263, 274, 278, 284, 306

1994 Orion 05.501 (1): 400

1995 Orion 05.501 (3): 473, 543, 546


*Has Orion 05.501 #528 been repaired yet? I remember that bus was on fire about a year ago.* Wow! Casey Stengel is really loosing some buses.


Ray
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« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2006, 01:18:09 AM »

Most of the re-powered Orion 5's have just about had it. The engines have absolutely no power. Getting out of a bus stop is an adventure. Some are still good. It seems like the engine is not getting enough fuel. Can any maintenance people who might read this, shed some light on the subject? I have recently driven 199 & 188 (today) and they were satisfactory. They were originally ours (CS), then went to Manhattan, and now they are back. Is it the way that they are maintained, or is it an ageing thing?

Also, saw 519 with Stengel stickers and lug nut arrows today at 39th Ave. & Lippman. Those 500's are a big improvement over the 2xx & 3xx's.

I rode 590 not too long ago on the Q44 Limited. It barely reached 15 MPH. It was a LONG and PAINFUL ride to West Farms Square.
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« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2006, 02:26:26 AM »

590 is a CNG orion V its a JG. Perhaps ypu meant 509? that bus 509 is at QV It to will be going back to CS. or perhaps you meant 580? That is a CS bus.
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« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2006, 07:11:11 AM »

I think it has to do with how they are maintained. When the overhauled the 1993 orions there was no consistent set of standards on how the buses were to be rehabbed.
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« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2006, 09:02:10 AM »

Most of the re-powered Orion 5's have just about had it. The engines have absolutely no power. Getting out of a bus stop is an adventure. Some are still good. It seems like the engine is not getting enough fuel. Can any maintenance people who might read this, shed some light on the subject? I have recently driven 199 & 188 (today) and they were satisfactory. They were originally ours (CS), then went to Manhattan, and now they are back. Is it the way that they are maintained, or is it an ageing thing?

Also, saw 519 with Stengel stickers and lug nut arrows today at 39th Ave. & Lippman. Those 500's are a big improvement over the 2xx & 3xx's.

I rode 590 not too long ago on the Q44 Limited. It barely reached 15 MPH. It was a LONG and PAINFUL ride to West Farms Square.

Do you mean 560 specifically? (It does seem as though a lot of CS' O5s are dogs. At the rate this is going, the former GBL O5s will be needed for NYCTA service (gasp, unrepainted units being labeled MTA New York City Bus covering the Green Lines label).
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« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2006, 07:39:18 AM »

Orion 5's @ Crosstown O/S === 111MTA BUS, 176,262,263fire, 264,265,274,278,282,284,306, also O/S  463fire,and off subject RTS 8440 bad accident.(M104 a month ago ).   
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« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2006, 09:08:23 AM »

Orion 5's @ Crosstown O/S === 111MTA BUS, 176,262,263fire, 264,265,274,278,282,284,306, also O/S  463fire,and off subject RTS 8440 bad accident.(M104 a month ago ).   

Are all of these buses officially scrap (i.e., panels defaced, windows broken, not necessarily removed, doors removed)?
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« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2006, 09:59:48 AM »

Orion 5's @ Crosstown O/S === 111MTA BUS, 176,262,263fire, 264,265,274,278,282,284,306, also O/S  463fire,and off subject RTS 8440 bad accident.(M104 a month ago ).   

Adding 546, that means Stengel is down 10 Orions. They're gonna need QV's Orions back soon. They also should get back 531,533-35 from WF while they are at it.

262 I believe was the first Orion in Stengel to be outfitted with the Blue Light in the Front Destination Display.
265 had a label inside at one point that said "NYC Transit". No clue where that came from.

If anyone is close to Xtown, they should get some pics before these Orions are sent off to the scrap heap known as Nimco.
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« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2006, 04:18:21 PM »

264 said NYCT inside NOT 265.  While they're at it-send 401 404 425 452-455 back to CS too.  They need buses.
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T J Trainman
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« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2006, 07:16:57 PM »

Dont forget 456 thats at QV too. That should go back to CS.
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« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2006, 09:21:47 PM »

264 said NYCT inside NOT 265.  While they're at it-send 401 404 425 452-455 back to CS too.  They need buses.

Those 400's have been in WF for about a year now.  Only 456 remains at QV.
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« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2006, 10:07:47 AM »

264 said NYCT inside NOT 265.  While they're at it-send 401 404 425 452-455 back to CS too.  They need buses.

My mistake. Thanks for the correction.
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« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2006, 12:58:18 PM »

Most of the re-powered Orion 5's have just about had it. The engines have absolutely no power. Getting out of a bus stop is an adventure. Some are still good. It seems like the engine is not getting enough fuel. Can any maintenance people who might read this, shed some light on the subject? I have recently driven 199 & 188 (today) and they were satisfactory. They were originally ours (CS), then went to Manhattan, and now they are back. Is it the way that they are maintained, or is it an ageing thing?

Also, saw 519 with Stengel stickers and lug nut arrows today at 39th Ave. & Lippman. Those 500's are a big improvement over the 2xx & 3xx's.

How were the O5's before they were repowered?

JD
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« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2006, 03:02:45 PM »

Weren't the 45x's from Jackie Gleason?
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« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2006, 04:39:30 PM »

Most of the re-powered Orion 5's have just about had it. The engines have absolutely no power. Getting out of a bus stop is an adventure. Some are still good. It seems like the engine is not getting enough fuel. Can any maintenance people who might read this, shed some light on the subject? I have recently driven 199 & 188 (today) and they were satisfactory. They were originally ours (CS), then went to Manhattan, and now they are back. Is it the way that they are maintained, or is it an ageing thing?

Also, saw 519 with Stengel stickers and lug nut arrows today at 39th Ave. & Lippman. Those 500's are a big improvement over the 2xx & 3xx's.

How were the O5's before they were repowered?

JD

Much better with the DDEC 6v92TA engines! Faster too!!!


Ray
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« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2006, 04:40:12 PM »

Weren't the 45x's from Jackie Gleason?


Orion 05.501 #452-458 were at Jackie Gleason for a short time. I do remember seeing a picture of Orion 05.501 #458 on the B11.


Ray
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« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2006, 05:05:40 PM »

Speaking of 400s I was informed that 406 went from WF to KB Go figure.
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« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2006, 09:44:50 PM »

Weren't the 45x's from Jackie Gleason?


Orion 05.501 #452-458 were at Jackie Gleason for a short time. I do remember seeing a picture of Orion 05.501 #458 on the B11.


Ray

They were there for about a year. I remember them in my freshman year of high school. IIRC, 402-451 started at Kingsbridge before KB lost all of its O5s the first time.
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« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2006, 12:46:57 AM »

455 on the B16:


452 on the x27, which it is odd?
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« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2006, 01:16:13 AM »

452 on the X27? That wasn't that odd circa 1996. For a while, it was very common to see hard-seaters on the X27 just to make score. (I am not sure if the 1700s were being retired at the time, but they did see B51 service.)

I remember seeing 8544 and others on the X27 as well.

(BTW, IMO, I would use the exact same fleet for expresses and locals, to enhance fleet flexibility.)

Then, suddenly in 1997 or so, I remember starting to see them in Stengel (and now, 4 of them in West Farms, 1 in QV, and 457 and 458 in Kingsbridge.)

Speaking of 400s I was informed that 406 went from WF to KB Go figure.

You mean went back home to Kingsbridge---406 started out there.
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« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2006, 02:17:20 AM »

Aprrently that is what I was told.
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« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2006, 12:08:38 PM »

Quote

How were the O5's before they were repowered?

JD
Quote

When the Orion's had the 6V92TA engines w/ HTB-748 transmission combo, they were fast & very responsive.  Not like the Series 50EGR's coupled to the B-400 transmission.  When they were first repowered they accelerated very quickly.  The thing I hated about them was the jerking when you started to brake.  After only a few months when you pressed the accelerator on some buses, one would notice huge amounts of black exhaust coming out of the pipe.  I guess this was the exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) system failing on those buses.  It appears that there are more breakdowns with the Series 50's vs when they had 6V92TA engines.  In my opinion the Series 50 repowering job was a complete failure.  The 6V92TA's should have been modified with better trap systems if they were concerned about excessive emissions.

North Shore
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« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2006, 01:06:04 AM »

I noticed the 1993 Orions have aged rapidly since they were repowered. Looks like those Orions are now on their last legs like the 1991 TMC repowers, they were pretty solid buses in their earlier years with the 6v92TA engines.

Another reason why the MTA....SHOULD'VE LEFT THE DAMN ENGINES ALONE!!!But noooooo!They wanted to replace the original engines,which were Cummins BTW,to DD50's because they thought it was the best thing to do at the time.HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!RIGHT!Replace what probably were good engines with an engine model that is dirty as hell and quite frankly as far as I'm concerned....SUCK!
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T J Trainman
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« Reply #38 on: August 14, 2006, 02:09:08 AM »

They should just fix them up and send them to JFK & LGA BOTH DEPOTS are in DYING NEED of more buses. I give up.
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« Reply #39 on: August 14, 2006, 07:48:29 AM »

It appears that there are more breakdowns with the Series 50's vs when they had 6V92TA engines.  In my opinion the Series 50 repowering job was a complete failure. 
North Shore
I agree that its better to have stayed with the series 92 engines that came with these buses when they were built. I also believe the detroit diesel series 50 was pulled from the market because frankly its not that great of a bus engine. I would rather take a Cummins ISM engine over the series 50 any day if I was going to repower these 1993 orions.
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FutureKBArticOP
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« Reply #40 on: August 14, 2006, 07:57:17 AM »

Series 50 isn't that bad at all. You must have forgot the fact that about 75% of our fleet is series 50. Like we have addressed here many times before each repower is different from the next. Some of the repowers run better then the new buses....Back when I used to go out fanning ALOT...Orion V 308 was a better ride then 6136 and 6136 was in GREAT shape.
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« Reply #41 on: August 14, 2006, 08:56:20 AM »

Another reason why the MTA....SHOULD'VE LEFT THE DAMN ENGINES ALONE!!!But noooooo!They wanted to replace the original engines,which were Cummins BTW,to DD50's because they thought it was the best thing to do at the time.HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!RIGHT!Replace what probably were good engines with an engine model that is dirty as hell and quite frankly as far as I'm concerned....SUCK!

They had to repower the 6V-92 O5's (and RTS buses) if they wanted to run them after December 31st of this year, due to the new EPA engine requirements.
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« Reply #42 on: August 14, 2006, 10:30:22 PM »

They could have ran them with their original 6v92TA's but the emissions would have had to be reduced by 50% however I do agree that the 1991 TMC and 1993 Orions appearantly performed better with the 6v92TA. The DD50 is a fairly good engine and has produced good results, the EGR engines are a different story.
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« Reply #43 on: August 16, 2006, 08:55:12 PM »

Weren't the 45x's from Jackie Gleason?


Orion 05.501 #452-458 were at Jackie Gleason for a short time. I do remember seeing a picture of Orion 05.501 #458 on the B11.


Ray

Here is a picture of 458 on the B11
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« Reply #44 on: August 17, 2006, 11:41:45 PM »

Well I understand that 75% of the fleet is composed of dd s50 engines. The engines were probabily not properly mated with the buses that originally had the series 92 engines. I understand that the EPA would not allow you to operate a bus with 2 stroke engines because of the amount of bad stuff that comes out of the exhaust.
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« Reply #45 on: August 19, 2006, 06:51:53 PM »

Add Orion V 521 to CS it was on the Q-32 last night with CS stickers covering the QV stickers.........
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« Reply #46 on: August 20, 2006, 01:43:30 AM »

That same bus was on the Q14 today.
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« Reply #47 on: August 20, 2006, 03:22:15 AM »

Well I understand that 75% of the fleet is composed of dd s50 engines. The engines were probabily not properly mated with the buses that originally had the series 92 engines. I understand that the EPA would not allow you to operate a bus with 2 stroke engines because of the amount of bad stuff that comes out of the exhaust.

Not properly mated?Thats the understatement of the year.The 1990 TMC RTS' #8000-8396 WERE NOT BUILT TO HANDLE DD50'S!And you wonder why most of them started getting scrapped shortly after they were repowered.
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« Reply #48 on: August 21, 2006, 05:16:31 PM »

Add Orion V 521 to CS it was on the Q-32 last night with CS stickers covering the QV stickers.........

Saw it on the Q12 this morning. 524 was on the Q44 also. That makes 521-526 as being at Stengel now. 528 is still at QV - fire damage. Is that bus being fixed or scrapped. Any news BK?
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« Reply #49 on: August 23, 2006, 10:55:55 AM »

527 and 529 are also at CS.  Is 530 there too?  531 533-535 are at WF for some odd reason.  They should be at CS too.
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