MTA Bus to Provide Slower Service on Route Q53

[BusMgr]

MTA To Add Six Stops To Q53 Route
The Wave - March 17 2006

The Q53 bus will make six additional stops, adding up to 20 minutes to riders' commute, starting the first week in April, according to a spokesperson for MTA Bus. The Wave received calls this week from concerned commuters like Rockaway resident Berris Jones, who heard the news from bus drivers Mon

[Mr. Brian]

Any word where these stops will be added?

[RTS4660]

Lemme guess, that would be 157th ave,Liberty Ave, Atlantic, Jamaica, Metropolitan and Myrtle Ave. Does this mean that it would also run later?

[TCC Senior Man]

Lemme guess, that would be 157th ave,Liberty Ave, Atlantic, Jamaica, Metropolitan and Myrtle Ave. Does this mean that it would also run later?

You got them right RTS. New pick is scheduled to begin on Sunday April 9th and that is when the changes are going to take place. Note that they have made changes to the weekday runs by adding additional running times to each trip but from what I saw today, they have made no changes to the weekend running times. I believe that they have also added 3 or 4 weekday runs to the Q-53. Another change, all day runs with Sunday/Saturday off will pay the minimum 41 hours and 15 minutes.

I think that these changes will be disastrous for those individuals who regularly use the Q-53 every day. Imagine, come June when the temperatures hit 90 plus. It's bad enough that in the past on a hot day you already had buses leaving Rego Park with a full standing load. Where are you going to put those people who want to get on at the new stops?

[TransitGuy]

Wow that will be crazy, are they going to add a lot more buses on that route because of these additions?

[Green_713]

This is good anyway for a lot of people.  The Q21 is the only other route that runs where the Q53 does into the Rockaways but can't board the Q53 because it doesn't stop anyway along Woodhaven or Cross Bay Blvd.  Of course, the stop where you'll see alot of passengers for it will be Liberty Ave., where alot of people will now try the Q53 over the Q21 with its horrendous headways and MIA buses.

Alot of people have been asking for this too, very vocal I've been told.  It's been a half and half for the Rockaway residents, half of them want it so they can get off the A at Rockaway Blvd and board the Q53 instead of waiting for the Q21 and then there's those who catch it at Queens Blvd and rely on the non-stop service to the Rockaways.  I know I would like to try out the Q53 and its new stops along Woodhaven, specifically the Liberty Ave. stop, see how much it'll save on my travel time (or add).

[Mr. Brian]

You got them right RTS. New pick is scheduled to begin on Sunday April 9th and that is when the changes are going to take place. Note that they have made changes to the weekday runs by adding additional running times to each trip but from what I saw today, they have made no changes to the weekend running times. I believe that they have also added 3 or 4 weekday runs to the Q-53. Another change, all day runs with Sunday/Saturday off will pay the minimum 41 hours and 15 minutes.

I think that these changes will be disastrous for those individuals who regularly use the Q-53 every day. Imagine, come June when the temperatures hit 90 plus. It's bad enough that in the past on a hot day you already had buses leaving Rego Park with a full standing load. Where are you going to put those people who want to get on at the new stops?

A zany and probably asinine idea:

Perhaps have Q53s start their runs at 63 Dr, that way when they go Rockaway-bound, buses wouldn't be as packed as they would starting at Woodside?

[Flatbush41]

This is definitely going to add some running time to the Q53. The ridership on the Q21 is pretty light to begin with all year around but that means that by adding stops there will probably be the need to add more buses. On the subject of passengers wishing to go to Rockaway Blvd that is certainly valid and I can see that happening although many people deal with the Rockaway Park shuttle then the A but it has pretty bad headways to Far Rockaway.

My opinion that the Q53 should stay as is but a added stop at Liberty Av doesn't sound like a bad idea at all and should be the only one added if/when this really goes through.

[Bushwick22]

Why don't they just combine the Q11, Q21, and Q53 into one route?  Have the "limited" run the full route from Woodside to Rock Park and the "locals" run from somewhere in Rego Park to either Howard or Hamilton Beach.  The limited would after Queens Blvd stop at Metropolitan, Jamaica, Liberty, 150something Av(maybe), Jamaica Bay then all stops.

[OrionV]

Riders who normally take the Q11 from Queens Blvd and Woodhaven will now get off the subway at Grand Avenue to take the Q53. I agree, it will be like the Q20A/B and Q44Limited. Perhaps a Q53 should run late night and make all the stops.

[Bill from Maspeth]

I don't see how adding a few additional stops is going to add 20 minutes to the route!  Gimme a break.  The bus can only fit so many people on it!  Now if you're telling me they're adding another 20 minutes because traffic conditions make the buses late then I understand!  Or am i missing something?

[Hawk Operator 10]

I don't see how adding a few additional stops is going to add 20 minutes to the route!  Gimme a break.  The bus can only fit so many people on it!  Now if you're telling me they're adding another 20 minutes because traffic conditions make the buses late then I understand!  Or am i missing something?

Due to congestion that already exists along the Woodhaven Blvd corridor.  The additional dwell time for unloading, loading, the questions as to the next stop etc.  The loss of the traffic signal sequence at each additional stop.  Twenty minutes is the bare minimum additional time needed.

[JA]

Hmmm...so when does the Q21 go to LaGuardia? Maybe that's getting ahead of myself. Will the Q21 even exist? It seems like this bus route is finished. Of course, this route has always been near the top of hit lists, so no surprises here.

[RailBus63]

The obvious answer here is to restructure the existing routes, making the Q53 the primary route with both local and limited service and possibly eliminating one or more of the other routes.

JD

[Bee Flexible #823]

If this is the case, then this will be the end of the Q21 as we know it.  The Q53 will pick up all or most of the slack for the Q21.  This will be disastrous in the summer. The buses were already packed by 63 Dr.
Who the heck is in charge of structuring these routes?  They sure do not know what the heck they are going to get themselves into by doing this. You not only the problem with the amount of people, but you will also have buses being forced to travel on the service road rather than the express road-which will lead to more added time.
I'd rather see the Q11 getting extended to the Rockaways rather than this.  I think you will see many more added complaints once these changes take effect.

[RTS4660]

They might just keep the Q21 for some purpose but please add more trips to it, instead of using them for Goddard MS, at least trade them in for trippers on the Q22 going to the Rockaways. Next thing you know, 63rd Drive will be rerouted to Woodhaven instead removing one stop.
 As for the Q11 wasnt there a recommendation for it to be restructured to 74th street Terminal? Maybe consider those 2 branches Howard and Hamilton Beach of which can be adjusted or replaced with a new Q41, just a thought.

By the way, is the website on the MTA bus side communicating those changes or do we just wait and see.

[Grand Concourse]

Lemme guess, that would be 157th ave,Liberty Ave, Atlantic, Jamaica, Metropolitan and Myrtle Ave. Does this mean that it would also run later?

Just two stops on Liberty Av and Jamaica Av would be great for the subway transfers. This is a great idea. Even though the Q53 is a fantastic "super express" it would be better to have at least those two stops.

[BusMgr]

Who the heck is in charge of structuring these routes?  They sure do not know what the heck they are going to get themselves into by doing this.

MTA Bus service planning is now being performed by people formerly with NYCT, and whose experience is limited to having observed the privately-operated bus routes from an outsider's perspective. There will be a learning curve since MTA Bus personnel now have to re-learn all of the service characteristics of the routes that have developed over these past 100-plus years. As a result, it is possible that many mistakes will be made based on lack of knowledge and perspective.

In the case of the Q53, there are two primary markets being served. First, mostly during the week, there are middle class residents of the Rockaways who wish to avoid the "A" train because it travels through economically-depressed areas of Brooklyn. Second, mostly during summer weekends, there are many people throughout Queens (and the rest of the City) who desire a fast trip to the beaches without to traverse the long travel times on (and circuitous access to) the "A" train. In the case of the former market, making stops where there is easy access to the "A" train at Liberty Avenue could cause a drop-off in transit usage (and a concomitant increase in auto usage) if the increased access to the "A" train results in a demographic change on the Q53. In the case of the latter market, making more stops and slowing down the service--on buses that are generally filled to capacity now--will simply make it more inconvenient and discourage existing patronage.

I expect that MTA Bus service planning has simply transferred its limited-stop bus route practices blindly to the Q53, without understanding the Q53. This is forcing passengers to fit into the MTA model, rather than adopting the MTA model to fit passenger demand. This is the very antithesis of marketing and service planning.

[Mr. Brian]

I expect that MTA Bus service planning has simply transferred its limited-stop bus route practices blindly to the Q53, without understanding the Q53. This is forcing passengers to fit into the MTA model, rather than adopting the MTA model to fit passenger demand. This is the very antithesis of marketing and service planning.

I agree 110%.

It's like someone just looked at the map, noticed the stretch with no stops, and said "put more stops here!"  Kinda similar to some people who design these fantasy maps where they place routes in all these areas with little to no knowledge of the demographics.

Bad move, MTA.  I wish I had more hands...so I could give this idea four thumbs down.

[Ken S.]

In the case of the Q53, the former management knows that there are two primary markets being served. First, mostly during the week, there are middle class residents of the Rockaways who wish to avoid the "A" train because it travels through economically-depressed areas of Brooklyn. Second, mostly during summer weekends, there are many people throughout Queens (and the rest of the City) who desire a fast trip to the beaches without to traverse the long travel times on (and circuitous access to) the "A" train. In the case of the former market, making stops where there is easy access to the "A" train at Liberty Avenue could cause a drop-off in transit usage (and a concomitant increase in auto usage) if the increased access to the "A" train results in a demographic change on the Q53. In the case of the latter market, making more stops and slowing down the service--on buses that are generally filled to capacity now--will simply make it more inconvenient and discourage existing patronage.

As I see it adding a stop at Liberty on the Q53 would also reduce a transfer for those traveling from Jamacia on the Q41 or Q112. On the subject of the Q53, I'm wondering if LGA management will assign the newest buses it has to the route during the summer months when usage is highest? Last summer, I saw O5s working the route, so would LGA use D4500s or is this a no-no?

[Mr. Brian]

The Q53 is technically not an express route, so D4500s would be a no-no.

[Flatbush41]

Remember Brian, the Q53 has been "downgraded" to limited stop status 8-). I just cannot understand some of these boneheaded moves that these transit agencies do, as others have mentioned they most likely didn't do a survey and rational analysis at all. The summertime operations would be a bad thing waiting to happen and the Q21 is pretty much on the chopping block, again.

[Andrew Kirschner]

Remember Brian, the Q53 has been "downgraded" to limited stop status 8-). I just cannot understand some of these boneheaded moves that these transit agencies do, as others have mentioned they most likely didn't do a survey and rational analysis at all. The summertime operations would be a bad thing waiting to happen and the Q21 is pretty much on the chopping block, again.

I don't know about MTA Bus, but I know when I interned at the Transit Authority, routes were studied extensively, often at surprisingly micro levels. We were also working on ridechecking the PBL routes (I did a few QSC ones) to begin to plan them for post-takeover. I don't know if MTAB used NYCT's info, but I doubt they went into this cold. Even the NYCDOT did some level of planning when the routes were theirs, though it appears they did not do nearly enough.

---Andrew

[QM18Express]

I do like the idea about adding some stops on the Q53 as it would make travel to Rockaway Park easy for the people comming from the Woodhaven Blvd corridor. It would have a impact on some people from the Rockaways as it would take more time.
It is also a plus because I heard of demand for a Cross Bay/Liberty stop so like that people can take the A train or other bus routes. It would also give a 2 seat ride to Jamaica down from the current 3-4 seat ride.
I have read a NYCDOT report on the plan for the Q53. The adding stops was part of the plan however they wanted to discontuned the Q21 and make Q53 make all local stops south of Liberty/Cross Bay.

[BrooklynBus]

I don't see how adding a few additional stops is going to add 20 minutes to the route!  Gimme a break.  The bus can only fit so many people on it!  Now if you're telling me they're adding another 20 minutes because traffic conditions make the buses late then I understand!  Or am i missing something?

The big thing is the signal timing during rush hours.  I drove this route in my car for many years.  On good days it is possible to do the entire route without hitting a single red light but this is rare.  The average is about two or three red lights which would apply to the current Q53 which makes no stops.  The trip between the Belt Parkway and Queens blvd currently takes between 10 and 20 minutes with 15 as the average (and probably another 5 to 10 minutes to get down to Broad Channel.)  With the additional stops you would lose a minute at each stop due to the loss of signal timing plus the dwell time.  I can easily see 20 minutes during rush hour.

If demand warrants, I don't see why they can't do both -- have some buses make the limited stops and others run through.  But whenever I see the bus, it doesn't seem to be that crowded and usually has seats.

[ExGreenBusDriver]

BrooklynBus, I agree during the winter time the q53 could run local and during the summer months run local and express if they have too. There is always a solution to a problem.

[QM18Express]

The big thing is the signal timing during rush hours.  I drove this route in my car for many years.  On good days it is possible to do the entire route without hitting a single red light but this is rare.  The average is about two or three red lights which would apply to the current Q53 which makes no stops.  The trip between the Belt Parkway and Queens blvd currently takes between 10 and 20 minutes with 15 as the average (and probably another 5 to 10 minutes to get down to Broad Channel.)  With the additional stops you would lose a minute at each stop due to the loss of signal timing plus the dwell time.  I can easily see 20 minutes during rush hour.

If demand warrants, I don't see why they can't do both -- have some buses make the limited stops and others run through.  But whenever I see the bus, it doesn't seem to be that crowded and usually has seats.

I rember on Monday March 27 around 9:50 AM I got on 9730 on the Q53 and that was 1 of the fastest rides I ever got for a bus. Got to Rego park in 15 minutes from 9th Road without stopping!

[BrooklynBus]

When I stated that they could run limiteds and non-stop buses if demand warrants, I meant to say that there should be two branches during those times.  The limiteds running as proposed but only to Queens Center via Rego Park.  The through Rockaway buses should run straight on Woodhaven Blvd to Queens Center and Woodside.  There could be a stop for transfers on both routes at 63rd Drive and Woodhaven Blvd.  Two route numbers should be used.  I would think two routes would only be necessary in the summer.

[ExGreenBusDriver]

why do they need to use two route numbers? just keep it the q53 and have local and express service, keeping the express service as is and have the local make all express stops than make stops at Metro, Myrtle, Jamaica, Atlantic and all local service south of liberty ave

[BrooklynBus]

Because the bus could save a lot of time (at least 5 minutes) by staying on Woodhaven until Queens Center and avoiding 63rd Drive due the the chronic northbound congestion between Alderton St and Queens Blvd.  If there were two services I don't think it would be necessary for both services to go to Rego Park.  Therefore, if the destinations were different (Queens Center via Rego Park and Woodside) and two different streets were used (Woodhaven for the Woodside service, and 63rd Dr for the Rego Park service, it would be too confusing to use the same route number unless you use an "A" suffix on one, which they are doing less frequently.

If the congestion on 63rd Drive were reduced, that would be a different story.  This can easily be done by turning the wide 63rd Avenue into a two-way street north of the LIRR which the residents would oppose because they don't want any traffic on their street.  South of the LIRR it has always been two-way without any problems.  63rd Drive southbound has little congestion.

[Green_713]

New notices have been posted on LGA's buses notifying passengers of the new, altered Q53 service.

Also, a new schedule has been posted for the Q53 with the new additional limited stops on the MTA Bus site.  You can check it out here (in PDF):

New Q53 Schedule

[QM18Express]

New notices have been posted on LGA's buses notifying passengers of the new, altered Q53 service.

Also, a new schedule has been posted for the Q53 with the new additional limited stops on the MTA Bus site.  You can check it out here (in PDF):

New Q53 Schedule

I got a notice off of 9736 today on the Q53. There was some on the seats so I took one. Here is a scan of the notice.

[Green_713]

I got a notice off of 9736 today on the Q53. There was some on the seats so I took one.

Cool, thanks, I tried taking a pic of it on the bus, but I had my old camera which doesn't like bumps and shakes and displays that dislike with blurry pics.

[OrionV]

Viable limited stop corrider? That means now the B103 and the QBX1 have to be revised as well. While the QBx1 is not a limited there is a huge segment in the Bronx with no stops.

[Driver@BTN]

Does anyone have a subscription to "The Wave" newspaper? I can only access the free snippet of the actual article:

On Thursday, May 18 at 7:45 p.m. sharp, State Senator Malcolm A. Smith, along with Norman Silverman, Chief of Operations for the MTA, will address the issues of bus service, six extra Q53 stops, and additional Manhattan express buses, Q35, Q22, Q21, QM16 andQM17, at a meeting of the Good Government...

Link: http://www.rockawave.com/news/2006/0512/Community/054.html

[Ken S.]

The buses are already crowding up with these extra stops. When are the artics coming to MTA Bus? If the MTA doesn't want to convert several depots to artic operation, just send the Q11 & Q53 to Rockaway and put the Q35 in Spring Creek.

[Hawk Operator 10]

That means now the B103 and the QBX1 have to be revised as well. While the QBx1 is not a limited there is a huge segment in the Bronx with no stops.

Lets see if I remember the QBX1 stops, north bound, Lafayette, Brush (by Movieplex, East Tremont, Country Road, Pelham Bay then on to Coop, every block just about has a stop.  Which huge segment of the Bronx has no stops? The BX5 serves local stops with the QBX1 making Limited stops along the Bruckner up Pelham Bay.

[Flatbush41]

So it has been just over one month since the new Q53 stops were added and from the few rides I have taken in my spare time I noticed that riders have started to catch on but not as much as first expected. For those who drove or rode the new Q53, what are some of your thoughts on this service?

[Driver@BTN]

MTA Adds Six Stops For Summer Beach Crowd
Joseph Wendelken - The Queens Chronicle - May 18 2006

In an effort to better serve South Queens residents, the MTA has added six stops to its north south Q53 bus route, which runs from Jackson Heights to the Rockaways.  The service changes, implemented on May 14, are in time for the southbound, summertime rush toward Rockaway’s beaches. Stops also include Woodside, Rego Park, Woodhaven, Ozone Park, Lindenwood, Howard Beach and Broad Channel.

The new stops, all between Rego Park and Broad Channel, will be at the intersections of Woodhaven Boulevard/Cross Bay Boulevard and Metropolitan Avenue, Myrtle Avenue, Jamaica Avenue, Atlantic Avenue, Liberty Avenue, and 157th Street. The bus had previously not stopped along the 6 1/2 mile stretch between Rego Park’s Queens Boulevard/63rd Drive and Broad Channel’s Noel Road/Cross Bay Boulevard. The MTA has also assigned four additional buses to service the route each day.
   
“We saw this as an opportunity to improve public bus transportation in the area,” said MTA spokeswoman Mercedes Padillia.  A total of 2,100 travelers board Q53 buses on a typical weekday, with 1,300 riding on Saturdays and 900 on Sundays. Of the weekday riders, many are students traveling to area schools including Middle Village’s Christ the King High School on Metropolitan Avenue.
   
Q53 rider Carl Perrera plans to use the new stop at Liberty Avenue and Woodhaven Boulevard to visit his mother, an Ozone Park resident. “It’s just better service. You had to make so many transfers before. It’s the right thing,” he said. Rosario Lopez has started riding the Q53 from her Richmond Hill home to a travel agency in Jamaica Heights, where she works as a receptionist. Waiting at the Jamaica Avenue stop on Wednesday morning, Lopez said, “It’s great. Much better. I used to have to ride the 11 and change at Queens Boulevard to get the 29. It saves me a half hour in the mornings.”
   
The service change is expected to pull riders from the often crowded Q11, the only other bus along the Woodhaven Boulevard/Cross Bay Boulevard route. The Q11 turns around at Hamilton Beach and heads back north while the Q53 continues over Cross Bay Veterans Memorial Bridge. Rockaway residents have long been opposed to Woodhaven Boulevard/Cross Bay Boulevard local bus service, fearing that the stopping buses would slow traffic to and from mainland Queens. Triboro Coach Corporation had operated a Woodhaven Boulevard/Cross Bay Boulevard bus before the MTA assumed all of the private company’s routes on Feb. 20.